Marvin: 0:53

I came at a point in my life where I had done things the best I could. I had toed, the line in terms of trying to be the marital, you know, husband that I was supposed to be. Mm-hmm. I slowly got more and more depressed to the point that I was suicidal. I came out of. The hospital.'cause I was hospitalized in a psych hospital. Suicidal. I was on suicide watch, had a roommate who was in there because he was in love with two women and he was so torn up about it that he didn't know what to do. He was just gonna kill himself. And I was like, God put this person as my roommate in this hospital because I was like, oh wow. I'm not the only person that has the capacity to. You know, love more than one person. But anyway, I came out of that whole experience with a decision that I'm like, okay, I have spent this much time in my life trying to be right.

Veronica: 1:47

Right.

Marvin: 1:48

And that has clearly not served me. I've only become more and more miserable, so I'm gonna. Exit that strategy. That is a failed strategy for me in my life, and I'm gonna figure out how to be happy. And if it's wrong, air quotes, then it's wrong.

Veronica: 2:05

Can we just point out that nobody even knows where this right and Wrong came from? Mm-hmm. Oh, like who in society created this right way to do things and wrong way to do things? Yeah. Because in my mind and what I've learned and What I've kind of started to feel is that, we're not meant to be monogamous. Mm-hmm. I wholeheartedly feel like. We're not meant to be monogamous. Yeah. And I say that. Not to say that we can't be right. We can right. If that's personally how we feel with somebody. That this person is fulfilling my needs to the fullest. I don't need to, Find anything elsewhere. But if we all just sat here and decided, okay. I like having sex with this one person. It's great. I'm gonna date them or I'm gonna marry them, and then all of a sudden you're still having sex with this person. It's still great, but other needs aren't being fulfilled well then what? Because you just committed yourself into this monogamous situation or marriage or relationship or whatever.

Marvin: 3:11

Yeah.

Veronica: 3:11

Now you're fucking miserable.

Marvin: 3:13

Yeah.

Veronica: 3:13

Then you start to take it out on this person, so now you're resentful. Right? So now, not only did you ruin this situation where the sex was good. But you've created this hostility between you and this person. Mm-hmm. Which should have never even come about. Right? We put so much pressure on ourselves and the person that we're with Yeah. To fulfill everything. Everything.

Marvin: 3:34

Yes.

Veronica: 3:35

It's impossible. Yeah, it's impossible. Yeah. So again, I say that not to say that you can't be monogamous'cause there's people out there that are monogamous, right? Absolutely. But do you not think that they don't see somebody that they find attractive and, and daydream about or, or think of different things about doing something with them,

Marvin: 3:54

right?

Veronica: 3:54

No, they do.

Marvin: 3:55

Yeah, So

Veronica: 3:56

This the spot that we're in now.

Marvin: 3:58

Mm-hmm. I love it. We're in a new spot, y'all. We're in, we're in a

Veronica: 4:01

new spot. Listeners. We're in a new spot, I had an encounter with a man who I now still sleep with. It is a little over four years now. Still very much infatuated with this man. Our sex is still amazing. we have nothing else.

Marvin: 4:19

Nothing.

Veronica: 4:19

It is literally just a sexual situation.

Marvin: 4:22

Yeah.

Veronica: 4:22

We do not I'll come back to recent, but from the moment we started sleeping together, which we, I brought a blanket. It was in the middle of the night. 3:00 AM We are in the field and live it. Yeah. We had deer watching us. It got creepy but. we fucked really good. It was great. Dick huge. The gentleman is extremely attractive. Just, ugh. He's just gorgeous. Yeah. Like a fucking Greek God. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. But personality wise and communication wise, he's awful. Mm. So we don't we don't talk. Mm-hmm. It, it's a text. Yo. I'm like, what's up? Tonight, question mark. Okay. Yeah. Perfect. Okay. We did that and we've been doing that for four years. After the second year, the condoms came off. We were having sex raw, no protection. I have an IUD, so I can't get pregnant.

Marvin: 5:14

Mm-hmm.

Veronica: 5:15

there was an assumption or there was an understanding that, okay, we're doing this, we're sleeping with just each other. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. obviously. I slept with just him, but I had my one or two random because I found these random men attractive. Mm-hmm. And I'm like, let me, let me test the waters. It was never any better than what I already had. Yeah. It wasn't good. But I tried it. I'm like, okay, I fulfilled that need. Yeah. There was a need there. Always used protection. Mm-hmm. Wanted to see what it was like. Yeah. Solid. Not good. Right. Great. Still have my main guy. Yeah. During that second year, somebody from my past who I found extremely attractive, who I was obsessed with at one of my jobs, he would come in, he was my regular. Mm-hmm. But I was married. I never cheated. I never cheated. I never went with those feelings that I had. He was married as well, but. I feel like if I had taken the steps back then It'd be different now. So second year into sleeping with the gentleman that I met here at this wonderful spot, I saw the guy that I'd known for forever right here. Oh wow. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Saw him, hadn't seen him in forever. He was with his kids. I was with mine. I was like hi, how are you? Yeah. Oh my God. Still as fine as could fucking be. Yeah. He's a little bit older than me, my guy I've been sleeping with is younger than me. He's about six years younger than me. And he was like, man, we need to catch up. Let's, you know, let's get some drinks or some lunch or something. Let's catch up. Mm-hmm. Great. Perfect. That's all. Never thought anything of it, but that texted him a couple times, took him a minute to text me back. Nothing really came about that. And then it was a long time after that. It had to been like six months, seven months. I get a friend request on Snapchat. Oh. And we all know,

Marvin: 6:58

oh yeah, right. Let's

Veronica: 6:59

Snapchat is used for Okay.

Marvin: 7:03

You're like, I see you. I

Veronica: 7:04

see you. So that was my end. That was my, oh hey. Mm-hmm. My door's open. Come in. Mm-hmm. So the difference with this man, and the first one, this man is married. The one that I've been sleeping with for four years is very single. unlike the engaged gentleman from the first story I hate this man's fucking wife. I do not like her. She is a cunt, the purest definition of one. She is stuck up. she just treats people like shit. She looks down on them'cause she comes from money. Yeah. Get that. Great. Be bougie all you want to. Right. But she also tries to, be, I don't know how to say it, be down with the culture or something, because her husband is black. But he has created this whole different persona of himself because of who he married and the status they have and You can tell he's very uncomfortable in certain situations.

Marvin: 7:58

Oh, gotcha. So he had to create something that wasn't authentic for him? Yes. In order to fit in her world. Fit in the world, yes. I see. Got it.

Veronica: 8:05

And he is the type who, they were, they dated in college. He got her pregnant. He did not wanna be a statistic. And he said, okay, let's marry, let's get married. So they did that. Gotcha. Fast forward to us. He hit me up, said the right things, I said things back. He shows up to my house and we've been in love ever since. In love. Yeah. In love. Yeah. And I have loved a lot throughout my life. I've loved. I've been in love. I've just simply loved. I have been, I have friends that I love very much. Mm-hmm. So with him, it was supposed to be what I had been doing since I got divorced. Savage Cutthroat. We fucked during this time. You get nothing else. We don't need to conversate. I don't want to go, I don't want any more dates. I want nothing else. This man brought the whole package. He is caring and loving and wants to take care of me and wants to see me be successful and Yeah. It's crazy because in the only thing wrong is he will not leave her. Until his kids are out of the house. So I said, okay. Then I'm single. You're married. We're fucking, that's how it's gonna be. Yeah. So I kept, my guy who I've been sleeping with for four years mm-hmm. Because I knew he had his wife only fair. Mm-hmm. Only fair. Mm-hmm. So, Yeah. So I'm still talking to both of them. And we're four and three years into it. And my four year guy. I just found out he's had a girlfriend. For half the time. Mm-hmm. That we've been sleeping together. And I was like, that's fucked up. Because not only did we assume, or we stated that we were just gonna sleep with each other. Mm-hmm. You have not only had a girlfriend over the past, however many. Months or whatever, significant amount of time. But you've been taking women on dates, you've been sleeping around, but yet you've been sleeping with me two to three times a week. Oh yeah. Okay. Consistently. For four years. I was like, bro, that's really fucked up. But cool.'cause if I told you what I was doing you would get mad too.

Marvin: 10:01

Yeah.

Veronica: 10:02

But I don't, because again, it's not my business to tell him. Yeah. So. The married man. What's crazy about that is we have multiple spots. Oh, throughout our little, okay

Marvin: 10:13

there. I love it. Yeah. So you drive around and you're like right there. So we're,

Veronica: 10:17

yeah, we're like, okay. Behind the Wendy's.

Marvin: 10:20

Mm-hmm.

Veronica: 10:21

At that office building.

Marvin: 10:22

Oh yes. Mm-hmm. That is a parking lot. A good spot.

Veronica: 10:25

Great spot.

Marvin: 10:26

I've not yet myself, but you. But I have many times been back there and thought this is a good spot. Great

Veronica: 10:32

spot. It is Great spot. We do that one. There's one over by the soccer fields down that road. Oh, okay. And there's a small the start the car. Let's go. Okay.

Marvin: 10:42

I think I actually, I'm wondering

Veronica: 10:44

if it's the same spot. Well,

Marvin: 10:46

I don't, so I'm not even sure if there's a spot like what I'm thinking. But I'll tell you the spot that I'm thinking and I've wondered about that area. So, I mean, one of the things that's intriguing to me about, because you're talking about, about the soccer fields

Veronica: 10:59

Yeah.

Marvin: 10:59

So, I mean, bucket listing for me for sure is, you know, roads that are right by the interstate.

Veronica: 11:06

Yeah.

Marvin: 11:06

Cars driving by, you know? Yes. And of course driving way too fast to actually see you, but man, you see them, right?

Veronica: 11:13

Yes.

Marvin: 11:13

So, I mean, that road is right by an interstate. And I've thought, man, there's gotta be like a really good spot to just be like right there and boom, you know? Yeah. And they just drive by and you're like,

Veronica: 11:27

Uhhuh.

Marvin: 11:28

Yeah.

Veronica: 11:29

I've done it in the bathroom of the airport parking garage.

Marvin: 11:33

Oh, amazing.

Veronica: 11:34

Yeah. That was fun. But this spot, yeah, this is so random and honestly, it just, you know, he's married, so he's got. Sneak outta the house, pretend he is going to the gym. Right. And meet me at whatever spot we can come up with. Or he'll sneak into my house like you did yesterday, yeah, right. Knock it out and leave. Gotcha. But you know, all of this, I have great stories. I've messed with many men. over the past five years. And I, you know, I'm not ashamed of it. I love that. I'll tell my truth to whoever's willing to listen or mm-hmm. Who needs to hear some things like that, women wise. Because if a man asks me for a body count, I hate that question. don't ask me that. Because when I tell you, and when I speak my truth about my story, you are going to have a. preconceived notion. Because I'm gonna give you a number that you think isn't proper. Or you think is unacceptable. But again, that's

Marvin: 12:37

our society. Thank you for breaking that que for that particular point down because I've had, I've had other women say that they hate that question. Mm-hmm. And, you know, for me, the thing about that question is, I come from obviously a different place than what they've experienced around that number. Because I get excited about the number. Mm-hmm. You know, like, I wanna celebrate whatever the number is, because to whatever degree that it defies and breaks the rules about what it should be. Mm-hmm. When it's just not Yeah. The numbers are way off in terms of what the expectations are. The rules are, right.

Veronica: 13:13

What's acceptable

Marvin: 13:14

for men

Veronica: 13:14

what's acceptable for women.

Marvin: 13:16

like if a woman is like, this is my number I just. Fantasize and dream about a day when women could be on an interview, on a major talk show. And say their number

Veronica: 13:30

right.

Marvin: 13:30

Instead of it being like what you said of Yeah. People automatically are gonna go, oh, that number's too high.

Veronica: 13:37

You're a slut.

Marvin: 13:38

Yeah.

Veronica: 13:39

You're ran through.

Marvin: 13:40

Or that your worth is somehow less. Yes,

Veronica: 13:42

yes.

Marvin: 13:43

Because there's this idea that, oh, well, yeah, so

Veronica: 13:45

You can't be a wife to this one. Right. No one

Marvin: 13:48

No one could ever want you. And I just believe that there is a future time when that materializes is just not true.

Veronica: 13:57

Right. Why am I looked at as something different? Yeah. I love my sexuality. Yeah. I enjoy my experiences. Yeah. There have been some that I wish I didn't have.'cause they were not fucking good. It wasn't worth it. It wasn't worth it. Yeah. Yeah. But at the same time, again, it's an experience. It's an adventure. It's something you're fulfilling, something that you had a need to fulfill. Like why are we denying our needs? If you see, if you see a man or a woman that you find attractive and they find you attractive and y'all are interested in each other, why not bang it out? Absolutely, because we don't see a future with them. That's the issue. Or because they've been with however many people, that's a problem. That's crazy to me.

Marvin: 14:39

Yeah, absolutely. I 100% agree with you. I think the permission that you just spoke, if that were to somehow be embodied across the planet. and I mean, and some people are gonna be like, that's not for me. Great, great.

Veronica: 14:51

Absolutely. But that's perfectly fine.

Marvin: 14:53

Yeah. But like, but there's people that it is absolutely for mm-hmm. And if they had that permission, you know, without shame.

Veronica: 15:00

Yes.

Marvin: 15:01

what would the world look like? Happy, happy.

Veronica: 15:03

How

Marvin: 15:03

much, like happy less people like raging in traffic would there be, you know? Yeah. They'd be happy.

Veronica: 15:09

cause they'd be like, you know what, you're cute. Here's my number. Well, let's fuck later. Yeah. And not be ashamed about it. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I have another story. I have a guy who, I just love, I love him. Mm-hmm. I love him. Mm-hmm. This is, this is somebody who I will be friends with probably. Until the day I die. Mm-hmm. he was literally one of in my prime. 2019, the end of 2019, I was coming home from Paris. I keep in mind I got divorced the beginning of 2019. Yeah. And I was trapped during my whole marriage. I loved to travel. I love to go to different places. So I was coming home from Paris. I had seen a guy on Facebook eight months prior to that. Fine. Just, ugh. Beautiful. Mm-hmm. Just good looking dude. Hit him up. He wasn't interested. Okay, cool. Yeah, he was, he was in the middle of a separation. He had been separated from his ex-wife or his wife for three years. He wasn't into dating whatever else. I'm like, okay, great. Let's just be friends. We chatted up a couple times on Facebook. Then he saw me, he actually really saw me in my posts from Paris. And started paying attention to things I was saying and

Marvin: 16:10

mm-hmm.

Veronica: 16:11

You know, he said, you know, when you come back. Told him when I came back, he said, okay, let's link up. I said, perfect.'cause this is all I want. He was like, great. Didn't realize that. I said, yeah, I didn't wanna date you. I don't know. You like that? Yeah, I don't date. Yeah. After the first two times, me and him hooked up, it turned into gab sessions to where we were having sex and sitting down and having conversations for hours because he felt seen. Yeah. But not only did he feel seen. I felt seen and he did not judge me for what I had going on. My roster, my mindset, the savagery of me cutting men off when I was done with him. Yeah, he applauded me. And loved that. He was like, you're not crazy, are you? I'm like, absolutely not. He was like, you're not gonna fall in love with me. And then like. Come back around and go nuts on me. I was like, no. Sorry. If that's happened to you before, I am completely different.

Marvin: 17:03

Right.

Veronica: 17:03

I've heard a lot of times I'm the exception to the rule. Oh. But I don't wanna be, I want women to feel comfortable in doing what I do or doing what they feel like they wanna do. Yeah. So with this gentleman, oh, it just worked out beautifully. Four months into it, he gets a phone call from his ex and she wants to work things out with him. Mm-hmm. Within the four months. And me and him were. Doing what we were doing. I learned of his love for his wife and the things that he had gone through with her and his infidelities in earlier years of their marriage. And they had two beautiful young girls together and he was outta the military and there was a lot of things that he shared with me. We shared a lot of stuff with each other. So for me, I was actually the first person he called to say, Hey, so and so called me. My ex-wife called me and wants to work things out. I'm like, fucking amazing. Great. This is what you've been wanting, right? He was like, yes, but, and word for word I can't let you go. And I said, you know, I understand you don't wanna let me go, as in I'm easy. listen, we have great sex. There's no drama. I understand that's something that people strive to have the people in relationships strive to have, and we're not even in relationship. And this is something that is, it's hard to find. I said, but I know how much you love your wife. I know this is what you want. So you have to let me go in a sense of we cannot sleep together until you have figured out what you wanna do with your wife. He was understanding, I was understanding. We talked, it was COVID again, beginning of COVID. they jumped back into something they probably shouldn't have. They got stuck in an apartment together with their girls and it imploded because they didn't do the work that needed to be done to save their marriage. all the whole time I'm still there. He's still wanting to get head and fuck when he needed to release and that was understandable. So I did what I needed to do and what he needed from me. we gave to each other what we needed. we're on what, five years into it. we haven't slept together for over a year, two years. Two years I think. and that was just one occasion that we slept together and we hadn't slept together a year before that. So we grew this bond, and I'll never forget. When he messaged me and he said, I love you and I was like, wait, what? And I called him and he was like, I knew that was gonna freak you out. I'm like, no, I just wanna make sure we're on the same page here. So it wasn't an I love you that I wanna be with you. It wasn't I love you because you are there for me when I need to be. So, I loved him too. I love him still. And I am getting to the good part, I promise.

Marvin: 19:42

Oh no, this is all fantastic. Right. I'll love every bit of this.

Veronica: 19:45

He ended up, him and his wife ended up splitting again because they just, you know, they just didn't do the work that they needed to do. Yeah. they jumped back into it. I knew it was gonna happen, but they just needed to figure it out. They end up getting divorced. They finally got divorced. we took a trip to Vegas together. Okay. and the trip to Vegas was almost like a farewell trip for him because he had taken a job overseas. Oh, wow. And I wasn't gonna see him for quite some time. So we were really sad about that. So we took this trip to Vegas. In our minds and what we kept talking about, we were like, yeah, we need to have a threesome because I'd never had a threesome before. Oh, okay. And cool. So we were just talking about it and looking and we had a great time, don't get me wrong. I met a pimp, did not know it was a pimp at the time. Glad that I didn't do anything with him.'cause who would've known what the fuck would've happened, right. That shit was wild, figured out. It was a pimp. Later on once we got home and I called my buddy that I went with and I was like. Bro. The guy that you pulled me away from was a whole ass pimp. Can't believe it. So crazy. So we laughed about that, but that trip in Vegas, we had such a fucking blast. We had such a good time. We had great sex. We like, we dove into each other like we had never done before, right? He had told me about this girl that he was sleeping with. That, had fallen for him. And I said, you know, hey, you can't do what you do with me with other women because they will not understand, oh, you'll turn it here. They will not understand, nor will it be the same, because what we have is different. Again, exception to the rule. I do things differently because I have found myself, I have, I have learned that what I want and what I wanna do. So just literally right there.

Marvin: 21:32

listeners. Hey, listeners, we are coming to another spot. What condominiums are just right there. We're in a little parking lot next to a condominium.

Veronica: 21:42

it's a little office space

Marvin: 21:43

But there's like residences around. Mm-hmm. And all these families doing their thing, having no idea. The Veronica is being a naughty, naughty. Nearby.

Veronica: 21:53

Nearby. And you know what's crazy is that we would literally just open the car door and stand right there.

Marvin: 22:00

Oh, nice. Yes. Out and let the air, let the air

Veronica: 22:02

flow and just be, it'd be dark, but we didn't care. Yeah. It was where we needed to be because he was married and Gotcha. We had to get it in Uhhuh, but back to my guy in Vegas. So what's crazy is we, we set this expectation for ourselves, to have a threesome. Okay. It was very much talked about, right? Yeah. Talked about it. We looked for'em, looked for girls. It didn't work. Didn't work. We definitely enjoyed ourselves. We enjoyed being with each other. We had a great hotel room. We fucked in front of the window. Just so people could see if they could, that was enjoyable for us.

Marvin: 22:35

Yeah. Exciting,

Veronica: 22:36

lingerie, whatever else.

Marvin: 22:37

because it's like, you know that they see you, but they don't know who you are, but you're Yeah. They're like, who are those people? They're binocular. Yeah. This is great.

Veronica: 22:44

Yeah. Let's, let's watch the show. You know, putting on a show, it's an excitement. It's exciting. So that I absolutely, I felt comfortable doing that with him. I loved doing that with him. We filmed it. We have video of it. We keep it, both of us. what's crazy is that. Three weeks later he left. He was gone, for about six or seven months. he came back. Things were different As they are when there's time in between. And you don't get to be physical with somebody. Still very much loved him. He very much loved me. We talked, we very good friends. And I think, you know, his friendship with his ex-wife, he was trying to build on the friendship'cause that was his best friend. And even though they were divorced, he still wanted to keep a good co-parenting relationship. But the crazy thing was. we didn't sleep with each other anymore after that. We saw each other. When he came home. We decided not to, it just wasn't for us anymore. We still very much talked all the time. Right. And then I decided, I love Chris Brown, one of my favorite artists. Yeah. Okay. This is a little random. No. I decided when his tour dropped uk. I'm like, I'm going. I wanna go. Yeah. Are you kidding me? Right. Different country. Love it. Yeah. YOLO show shows here in the States. No, thank you. Yeah. Shows in different countries, Absolutly, right? Yeah. Yeah. So I bought tickets. To Ireland. Wow. To see Chris Brown. Yeah. Three tickets, because I'm like, okay, I'm taking two friends. I know people are gonna wanna go. The tickets were fucking cheap. I'm like in, in the standing area by the fucking stage. Wow. Amazing. The whole trip itself costs less than two tickets to a show here in New York. Wow. For Chris Brown. Whole trip. Wow, that's amazing. So the people that were supposed to originally go with me canceled and I offered it to, to my buddy.

Marvin: 24:25

Mm-hmm.

Veronica: 24:26

'cause he's a big fan as well. I said, Hey look. I know how to keep my mouth shut. If you do, if you wanna invite your ex-wife,'cause she loved him, Chris Brown as well. No, I don't think she'll go for it. I was like, it's fine. You invite who you wanna invite, but you're gonna come with me. We're going, we travel well together, let's just fucking go. Mm-hmm. So it was supposed to be me, him and a friend of mine. She canceled last minute. So I said, it's me and you, babe. Yeah. It's me and you. He was like, I don't care. That's fine. Let's go. It's all we're, you know what? Let's gift the ticket to somebody random that we see there. Alright, cool. I said, perfect. I'm down for that.

Marvin: 24:59

Yeah.

Veronica: 24:59

Our first night there, we wear our comfortable clothes. We go out, we're fucking bar hopping.

Marvin: 25:05

Yeah.

Veronica: 25:05

We run into a bar crawl, which I don't know if you know what a bar crawl is. Apparently you just. Pay mm-hmm.

Marvin: 25:11

To be with a group of people. I mean, just, and

Veronica: 25:14

then you just go to different bars. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, okay. Wasn't this what we were doing? Yeah. He was like, no, well, you're with a group of people, so it's cool. I'm like, okay. Yeah. But it was super cheap. So we're like, all right. And we get free shots at the door of every bar that we go to. Okay. And we get drink deals. Mm-hmm. So I'm like, okay, cool. Great. Both of us. What, what I think is great about both of us is we're, we are two very friendly people. We can make friends anywhere. We can talk to anybody. Yeah. So we're talking to these people in this huge, just a group of like 60. Okay. And we're just talking to random people. Where are you from? Where are you from? we met a gentleman who was from London. He was hilarious. So he's hanging with us, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. we get into this bar and my buddy is talking to this girl who was from Amsterdam. Big old, leather jacket on. She was cool. She looked Like a break dancer. Oh, okay. Cool. Just the vibe was there. We're like, oh, that's cool as shit. Love your outfit.

Marvin: 26:09

Yeah.

Veronica: 26:10

We're just talking it up. Having a great time. It's the four of us. We met these new people. We're hanging out. It's all great. We party until like three o'clock in the morning. Only place Open to eat is fucking Burger King in Ireland. Isn. That crazy. Yeah. we grab an Uber.'cause we're like, we're gonna, we're gonna head back to our Airbnb. we lost our guy. He left. We had all talked about meeting up the next day, for brunch. We wanted to do brunch. our guy was going to the Chris Brown concert. We're like, dude let's meet up. Let's go there. And our girl, she wasn't going, we're like.

Marvin: 26:41

Yeah. Ticket. Ticket. How about it? We have

Veronica: 26:43

an extra ticket. Do you wanna go? free ticket? Mm-hmm. Meet us, Sarah. Let's go have brunch. Let's have lunch. You know, in the morning. Then we'll all get dressed and we'll meet each other there. Yeah. She was like, oh my. Perfect. Yeah. Right. So we go eat, we're eating dinner at 3, 3 30 in the morning. We're like, Hey, where do you stand? I'm staying at the hostel. I said that's like five blocks and you're not walking down there like you wanna share an Uber, you wanna come back with us? No, it's great when you all come back with y'all and we can all go to brunch in the morning. Cool. Perfect. Let's go. We get back to our Airbnb. I think I rinsed off. We all rinsed off because we were nasty and we get in the bed, all three of us together in the bed. Yeah. And then she just starts feeling me up. Mm-hmm. And I'm like. Perfect. Yeah, let's go. Right, because the girl was fine as hell. Yeah, she was fine as hell. And we went for at least two hours. And it was probably the best sex I've ever had. And it was with a woman. Oh, I love that. Right? Yeah. That's amazing. And the best sex I've ever had was with a woman. Yeah. And she was the second woman that I had ever been with, the first woman that I had ever been with was a friend of mine who I'd who, just a random person that became my friend. Mm-hmm. And. She gave me my first experience because she was like, you've never been with a woman. I'm like, yeah, I haven't. She was like, that's disgraceful. I'm like, I know. So she fulfilled that dream of mine and it was fantastic, and I will love her forever for that. But this experience with my friend and this woman was so. Unprovoked and talked about that, like it was so perfect. It was not weird. Everything went smooth, everything was great. The next morning, none of us acted weird. We went and had brunch with our buddy that we met the night before. Mm-hmm. And then we go to this concert and we are all so loving with each other. And what's crazy is at this concert, you know, we're, we're all standing. So there's people standing around us and they're watching my buddy. Love on me. They, there were these women and girls, or people around us that were like, y'all together. I'm like, no. Oh, and y'all. Well, we're all here. Because he would love on me and then he would love on her. Mm-hmm. And she would hug on me and we would just, it was nothing inappropriate. Yeah. It was just very loving. Yeah. And caring.

Marvin: 28:50

Yeah.

Veronica: 28:50

And it was such a great experience, Marvin.

Marvin: 28:53

That

Veronica: 28:53

I still talk to her to this day. She's in Amsterdam. Wow. And this is three years later.

Marvin: 28:58

We

Veronica: 28:58

Yeah. We still message. she's got a boyfriend now. Mm-hmm. she still wants me to come and visit and nothing on like a sexual level. It's literally a friendship level.

Marvin: 29:06

Yeah.

Veronica: 29:07

But to have that experience, to feel open enough to do it. Yeah. To not be nervous or scared after the fact. To not feel ashamed to be able to tell my story.'cause that's fucking awesome. Yes. Went to Ireland for Chris Brown and had a threesome. Yes. That's crazy. Yeah. That's a great story to tell. Yes. Why would I wanna keep that to myself? Absolutely. I should not feel ashamed about that. Yeah. I had some of the best sex of my life. Yeah. Her breasts were amazing. Like I wanna talk about it because it was exhilarating, it was fun, and she's such a great human being. Mm-hmm. Why can't I talk about it? Yeah, absolutely. You know what I mean? Right. Absolutely. So, yeah, that, that was the last time I had slept with my buddy. Mm-hmm. And he is now back with his wife. They're not married, but they're back together. And I just think it's beautiful.

Marvin: 29:54

Yeah.

Veronica: 29:55

I try not to interrupt what he's got going on in life.

Marvin: 29:58

Yeah.

Veronica: 29:58

Because I feel like, like you said, there are women out there who don't condone certain activities. Right. Sure. Or wouldn't condone mine and his friendship mm-hmm. Because we were sexual. Mm-hmm. That's a whole other topic. Mm-hmm. That I think is. Stupid. Yeah. I just don't like that. Because we have a connection that, not many people get. Mm-hmm. And keep. Mm-hmm. You know, we did have a sexual relationship. We have such a strong friendship though, too. Mm-hmm. So that was, that's one of my highlights of my quote unquote ho stage uhhuh or whatever. I love it. My single life.

Marvin: 30:33

I mean, these are all such good stories. have you ever heard the word compersion before? No. I feel like you're gonna love this word.

Veronica: 30:39

let me hear it.

Marvin: 30:40

Compersion is my absolute favorite word, compersion is this word in the polyamorous community, It's when you feel genuine joy, happiness, because your partner is having some kind of experience with someone else. Yeah. That's com conversion.

Veronica: 30:58

Love it.

Marvin: 30:59

I love it.

Veronica: 31:00

Yeah. Yeah.

Marvin: 31:01

I mean one of the first times that I felt. I connected with it in myself and I was like, I love this about me I was actually in bed with someone and she was singing in her sleep.

Veronica: 31:14

I love it.

Marvin: 31:15

And the reason that she was singing in her sleep is because somebody else that brought that out of her, you know? Mm-hmm. I would not have been able to witness this moment and see this had I been someone who wasn't Com conversive and wasn't encouraging mm-hmm. For those experiences to happen. But because I was open to that, I got the opportunity to see. Her in this state of bliss and joy and how cool is that? Yeah. You know, opened the door for me

Veronica: 31:48

yeah.

Marvin: 31:49

Because, uh, she was singing country music. Now I am. Not a country music person.

Veronica: 31:54

Me neither.

Marvin: 31:55

And I'm not gonna be the person that brings that out of another woman. Right. Their excitement and joy at country music songs. I'm never gonna be that guy. Right. Okay. So, but if it's possible for you to. I'm not saying you,'cause obviously you just said, I'm also not a country music person. Mm-hmm. But like But like if, you know, as a woman that I'm with, if it's possible for them to be so elated by the some other person who brings that out at them, why would I not? If I love you.

Veronica: 32:26

love you, Why would I not be happy about that? Why would happy

Marvin: 32:29

not want you to have that experience? Yes. And and how cool would it be for me to actually get to see you in that? So that's conversion and that's, Now, I know for some people that's like, fuck that idea. Yeah.

Veronica: 32:40

But that's also, that's jealousy. When people say that. Mm-hmm. And not to say that I don't get jealous. I get jealous. Yeah, sure. I do. I feel a certain type of way with my married guy because I wanna be that person who makes him happy. I mean, I am, I'm that, I see it, I see it in his eyes. I know I make him happy, but I get jealous. I get jealous. Don't fucking look at that bartender too long. Don't do that. No. But then I, but then I turn around and I'm like, oh, wait a minute. I mean, she is kind of cute. Maybe we should look at her. Hold on. So my thing is, sometimes I have to stop myself and think back like, okay, this man loves me. Mm-hmm. He loves me and he will go above and beyond to do anything and everything I need him to if I ask. And if he finds somebody else attractive too. That's okay. Yeah, because it's fucking natural, right? It's natural, yeah. So if something. It, you know, makes him happy. I love it.

Marvin: 33:39

Yeah.

Veronica: 33:39

I love it. Yeah. I want him to be happy. Yeah. So watching my friend and his ex-wife I love, I fucking love it.

Marvin: 33:45

Yeah.

Veronica: 33:46

Because it is everything that he's been talking about for five years.

Marvin: 33:49

Yeah.

Veronica: 33:49

Everything he's been dreaming about everything that he has wanted. He has grown. She has grown. And now they're in a place where they can grow together and create this family that they've had before. But in a Better aspect. So I like watching that. And it doesn't mean that he loves me any less because our love is different than their love. Right? Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, yeah. People who can't understand that are the ones who are convinced, just convinced that it's wrong. The quote, quote unquote, right or wrong. And I, you know, it's kinda sad.

Marvin: 34:21

Yeah.

Veronica: 34:21

It's sad.

Marvin: 34:22

Yeah. Well, I mean, for me, it's like if they wanna have that belief and story and that's the life they wanna create, then. But I just know for me, I mean, I was raised with those beliefs as, as long as they're

Veronica: 34:33

happy. Yeah, exactly. They, if they're happy, absolutely. If they're happy in it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. But you, if you are, if you are visibly miserable, with the choices that you're making because you're trying to conform to the way society wants it to be, then no, absolutely not.

Marvin: 34:50

You not happy. Exactly.

Veronica: 34:51

You're not fucking happy.

Marvin: 34:52

Exactly. Yeah. I mean, and that's like, I mean, that's how I ended up, you know, in a hospital.

Veronica: 34:57

Yeah. Was

Marvin: 34:57

trying so hard to be that person and Yeah. For me, for sure. That model doesn't fit at all. You know, it for sure was not a recipe for happy. I've learned,

Veronica: 35:08

I've learned it's not for me. Like, of course, I, you know, I, I grew up with the whole fairytale thing. You know, I'm obsessed with Disney. I love Disney.

Marvin: 35:16

Mm-hmm.

Veronica: 35:16

Yeah. And that, you know, the fairytale endings and the Prince Charmings and the one man for every woman, and, you know. I don't see that anymore. It's very different. It's not that I don't want to be in this, in love, romantic type of Disney situation. Mm-hmm. Sure. What woman wouldn't. Yeah. But I also know it's not fucking reality. It's not something that's gonna be a lifetime. it doesn't exist. it may have existed 60, 70 years ago. Because again, nobody knew any better. Mm-hmm. This is what was beating their brains. This is what was supposed to happen. Yeah. You get married at 16, 17 years old and you mm-hmm. You stay married for the rest of your lives. Yeah. Our grandparents did things differently. Yeah. Our great grandparents did things differently. Yeah. Now it's, people are more open, more fluid, it's more accepted. That, you don't have to fit in a box.

Marvin: 36:07

Right. Yeah.

Veronica: 36:08

But yeah, I think I'm a lot more like you. Mm-hmm. I'm a lot more like you. I'm very open and free about things. Mm-hmm. And I just don't care. Mm-hmm. I don't care what people think. I do not care. I love that. Do not care.

Marvin: 36:21

That's so powerful. I mean, and I'm still working on that for myself because. There's a lot of people that I don't care, but there's certain people that I'm still

Veronica: 36:29

absolutely.

Marvin: 36:30

Really? and I'm hiding, from them.

Veronica: 36:34

Yeah.

Marvin: 36:34

Really. Because I am worried about what they're gonna think or say how they're gonna feel, and I mean, at some point, if I keep up what I'm doing, which I am

Veronica: 36:42

as you should, I'm

Marvin: 36:43

totally going to, as

Veronica: 36:44

you should,

Marvin: 36:45

then a lot of those, you know, there's gonna be a lot of people that are gonna find out. I really am and they're gonna be scandalized probably because, and but

Veronica: 36:55

you know what though, it's, that's. It's none of your business. Yeah. It's not your fault. That ain't got nothing to do with you. Right. How they feel and how they view you is their problem, not yours. Right. Absolutely. Why conform? Yeah. To please them. Yeah. Yeah. Do they pay your bills? Right? Do they wash your ass crack? No. Right. Exactly. what they think and look how they feel and what they think. Mm-hmm. Has nothing to do with you. It has everything to do with them. Yeah. And I had to learn that as well. And that's not to say that like. I, I don't, I like that I don't ever not care or that I ever care about things. I, I do. I just like you. There are certain people in places that I care about how I look or what they think of me or how I act. I still do,'cause again, we're human. But. With my family. I used to think the same thing. I used to hide or be nervous to go to family functions.'cause they're gonna say something about what I'm wearing or where I've been or who I've talked to. Honey, I wish the fuck they would now. I wish the fuck they would. I show up and what I wanna wear and how I wanna wear and I post whatever the fuck I wanna post on social media. Yeah. And when I go places and I'm half naked walking in a carnival in Jamaica. Mm-hmm. Baby, you gonna see my ass cheeks and titties hanging out.'cause you wanna know why it's. My life and my experiences and I'm not hurting fucking no one.

Marvin: 38:12

No. And I'm certain that you're also by doing that and by living your authentic self, you are giving permission to other people who needed to see that. You know? Yeah, absolutely. And wanna do what you're doing, but they just need somebody to lead in front of them and you're doing what Yeah. And so like I love that. I love that you

Veronica: 38:31

do that. I'm also, you know, I'm a single mom of two boys.

Marvin: 38:34

Mm-hmm.

Veronica: 38:35

And they're teenagers. And guess what? They gonna learn about life one way or another. And for me, I raised my boys and I raised them, quote unquote, responsibly and properly. I'm not gonna do drugs around them. I'm not gonna bring multiple men around them. My boys have never seen me with a man since my husband.

Marvin: 38:55

Yeah.

Veronica: 38:55

My boys have never seen me with another man.

Marvin: 38:59

Yeah.

Veronica: 38:59

And you wanna know why?'cause it's another business.

Marvin: 39:01

Yeah.

Veronica: 39:01

My personal life is another business. I stay focused on my kids and our everyday life and I keep my private life private from them because that it. You know, they don't need to see that. Mm-hmm. But as far as my adventures go and my stuff online or social media, I don't care if they see that because I don't harm them.

Marvin: 39:18

Right.

Veronica: 39:19

I don't do drugs around them. I don't drink around them. I don't put them in danger, and I don't put them in a situation where, their peers can see me and make fun of them. But like. And a lot of times, I see that their friends are watching me on social media. I have a public page. I don't care.

Marvin: 39:34

Yeah.

Veronica: 39:35

And if their friends say something to them that embarrass them, my boys, I've already created such a safe space and a safe haven for them that they will come to me and tell me, mom, what are they talking about? Yeah, you did this, this, this. I said, honey, I went to a different country and participated in a culture. Festival That they do every year to celebrate the freedom of their people. It just so happens to be that a lot of the costumes are very risque and they are half naked. That's just what they do. I said it's a learning experience. It's in history. Look it up. Mm-hmm. And they feel better about it. Yeah, sure. And they're like, well, I don't wanna see my mama. You don't have to stop looking. Yeah.

Marvin: 40:13

Yeah.

Veronica: 40:14

I'm not going to box myself in because of my kids. Mm-hmm. I'm going to take care of my children

Marvin: 40:20

Yeah.

Veronica: 40:20

take care of them the best way that I possibly can. Yeah. Moms out there Listening. These listeners, you, whether you're a single mom or you're a married mom or whatever the case may be, you're a woman first.

Marvin: 40:31

Yeah.

Veronica: 40:32

Be that woman. Yeah. Don't lose yourself into your title as a mom. Because once that happens, your kids do leave. Mm-hmm. They will leave you and what are you left with? A shell of a woman. Yeah. I'm preparing myself for when both of my children leave and I'm an empty nester. I wanna know who I am as a woman. So I wanna experience and do all that I can as a woman because I live my life as a mom. Yep.

Marvin: 40:59

Totally.

Veronica: 40:59

So my filthy, dirty little secrets, I have quite a few. Yeah. Yeah. But that, you know, that just adds to me being a woman. Yeah. I do photo shoots half naked. I do photo shoots with my children, in clothes that they're comfortable in. And, and I did a 40th birthday photo shoot and had a ball with it, and I sent my kids home and put on a, almost like a skims body shoot suit. With my butt out. To be natural. Mm. So everybody could see my roles, my wrinkles. My, it was a, this is 40, but I'm a woman. Yeah. Still. With no work done. Yeah. And this is how I feel. And I'm sexual and I am free and I can do what I wanna do.'cause I'm a grown woman. So all the moms out there. If you're listening Get you some dirty little secrets girl. Mm-hmm. Get you some dirty little secrets. Mm-hmm. And whether you wanna express them or tell them to anybody you can. Or you can keep them to yourself. Make yourself feel good.

Marvin: 41:56

Oh my God, that was like the perfect mic drop. This is. So amazing. So good. So perfect. You're such a magical person and I knew this inter this would be so fantastic, but it absolutely has been so much, I think, so powerful.