Marvin aka Morgan Hale: 0:00

I am here with some fear and trembling about this episode. I am grateful that you're here. If you uh I'm assuming saw the title and are choosing to listen to it. And thank you for your ears. Um I in 2020 released a book, my first book, as M. L. Patterson, and was writing a story about a woman who cheated on her husband. And that was very authentic for me, very erotic for me. But I was doing it hiding my identity from all but a select group of people that I felt safe with. But I definitely wasn't public on the internet about my identity at that time. Um but now I am, so this feels very different to be engaging in this conversation now where my face is out there, my name is out there. I do believe it's time, even though I'm scared to to own this truth of mine, which is that, and you'll hear it in this interview, that I have a tremendous amount of affection for women who cheat, women who are knowingly sleeping with men who are married or engaged or have, you know, committed relationship. Those women that choose that, I for some time now have just felt lit up by being someone that they felt safe enough to share that secret with. Yeah, and it's also very erotic for me. But it's something that I feel a great deal of love for them. So that is really what I hope comes through for anyone who if you are one of those women, I hope you feel it when you listen to this. I hope you feel love, I hope you feel acceptance. And um if you're someone who's been cheated on, and this is very triggering and very painful for you. Very understandable. I hope before you listen to this that you will go back to the episode before this one. The conversation that I had with Kyera. She came and gave something that I couldn't, which is the perspective of someone who's been through that experience. Please check that out before you listen to this. But regardless, thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for listening. And without belaboring this anymore, here's Veronica. Welcome to Filthy Little Secrets, the show where real everyday women get real about sex. We're here to shatter stigma and trample taboo one candid conversation at a time. My name's Marvin, but my readers know me as Morgan Hale, filthy romance author. And I'm your host for this heart-to-heart chat about something most of us think about, dream about, and even yearn for. But few of us feel comfortable admitting it, talking about it, or celebrating it. So let's get filthy together. Hey y'all. I am super excited today to bring you a live in-person interview with Veronica. Whoop woop. Right. And so this is gonna be fun and different. And I don't know how the sound's gonna be, but you know, whatever. It's gonna be great. And we're actually in my car, we're gonna take a little drive, and part of the deal is that we're gonna visit places that some filthy little things happened, and we're gonna share some stories and secrets, right? So, um, do you wanna go to one of mine first? Sure. Okay, yeah, we'll start with you. You know, it's my turn first. So yeah. Well, so in the meantime, we're gonna chit-chat, Veronica.

Veronica: 3:25

Yeah.

Marvin aka Morgan Hale: 3:25

Would it be okay for me to share a few things that I, you know, know about you in terms of filthy little secrets. Absolutely. And and I and so, you know, backstory for, I mean, some listeners know this about the show, but you know, I've been asked, like, why did you want to do this show? And for me, it was I've had a I mean, I'm in my 50s now, I've had a lifelong journey of peeling back layers of shame specifically around my sexuality. And one of the probably one of the biggest things, outside of just my own personal work on it, one of the biggest things that has helped me peel those layers back is all the different women in my life over the period of you know decades now, who at one time or another shared one or more of their filthy little secrets with me. And that has comforted me. It has made me feel less alone. And and for me, why um you know, maybe someone would ask the question, well, why was it women and not men sharing their secrets that meant something for you? And I think the reason is I came up with the same story that I think a lot of people, both men and women in our culture, come up with that women are somehow supposed to be different, they're supposed to be less sexual, and I didn't want-I mean, even as a young person, I don't want any part of that. Like if it was not everybody is free to have fun and be sexual and be naughty and be filthy, if it's not that and it's this game where men are that and they're gonna try to like quote unquote get in a woman's pants and take from them, I don't want any part of that. So, I mean, my initial reaction to my own sexuality was this isn't a fair game. This is all about predatory, you know, men just taking from women, and fuck that. I don't want to be a part of that, so I turned on my sexuality to the point of I was gonna be celibate, castrate myself, I was gonna be like a Catholic priest or a monk or something, but I was gonna run as far the fuck away as I could from my sexuality because I because I saw it, this narrative that was I you know later learned, thanks to women who told me their truth, that narrative was bullshit. And more and more I saw that maybe not everybody's sexual, but a lot of us, and definitely more women than I was the majority of us are sexual. Yeah, and so it was stop sign. That was a stop sign. I'm having so much fun talking about being filthy that I almost ran that stop sign. So yeah, there are stories that women told me like 30 years ago that I still hold on to like gems in my heart that I just think I love that fucking story. It was so it was so naughty, it was so filthy, and it was so real and so honest, and nobody other than maybe their very closest friends would have a clue that they did that thing because there is this like shame narrative that says women shouldn't, they well, especially 30 years ago, yeah, exactly.

Veronica: 6:43

It was worse than it is today, and obviously 20 years prior to that was worse than then, yeah, and so on and so forth. Absolutely.

Marvin aka Morgan Hale: 6:49

So, but you uh so honestly for me, because I've known Veronica for a long time now, really. Yeah, and you know, you have been one of those many women who I mean, I know these stories about you, and they are gems to me, and I'm grateful to you that A, you did those things, really. I mean, uh and but B, that I was lucky enough for you to let me see a glimpse of that part of you because it was another piece and dismantling this painful, you know, story that I had that wasn't true. And so so that is actually the whole spirit of this podcast, you know, is to be like, hey, let's find a space to tell the truth.

Veronica: 7:36

To be seen, exactly, to be seen, to not be judged, to be feel safe. That's what you are, Marvin, to women and I hope to some men as well, because it's always it's a blessing to have someone in your life that you're so comfortable with and you trust wholeheartedly that you can just spill your guts and your filthy little secrets to and know that if you didn't want anybody else to know they wouldn't. Right. But if you chose to tell somebody and let them broadcast it on a podcast, then it would still be safe, secure, and done in the proper manner. Yeah. So it's exciting. Yeah, for sure.

Marvin aka Morgan Hale: 8:16

That's developed. Well, we are on our way to one of my spots where I I was naughty.

Veronica: 8:22

Love it. And um I'm hoping it's one of my spots because we're headed in the right direction.

Marvin aka Morgan Hale: 8:27

Oh, cool. All right. Well, that would be kind of magical, wouldn't it? Yeah, so I mean, I haven't really yet gotten into the topic of like marital infidelity, but that is a theme for me. Like, I've written books now that are stories about women cheating on their husband in particularly salacious ways. Like, I mean, the very first book that I wrote was this woman who cheated on her husband with his boss on her husband's desk. Fun. And you know, it was just like so salacious and naughty. And, you know, some people really hated that book. And I understand why. You know, I totally understand why, but that was authentic for me, that was erotic for me, and it still is. It wouldn't be authentic for me to shy away from that topic. I for sure feel like I need to lean into it. And so this place that we're going is a place that I met up with a married woman. Not a whole lot happened, but it was definitely things going on, and and you know, and I cherish this place, and I cherish her choice to do this naughty thing, you know. I mean, she obviously came up against all of her own narratives about what was it right, was it wrong, all that kind of thing. But it was just an authentic choice for her, and it was naughty and it was filthy, and uh I loved that about her in that moment. And I think I'm always gonna be the person who, if a woman makes a choice like that, I'm gonna be pom-poms out, cheerleader.

Veronica: 10:01

The choices that make you want to feel better about yourself.

Marvin aka Morgan Hale: 10:04

Yeah, I mean, like, I get that there's plenty of people that are gonna be judgmental of that, and and that's their right. I feel like it's their right to feel that way and talk that way, and whatever, but that's not me. I'm gonna be, I'm gonna celebrate her. And I'm also going to lean into being able to like listen to the person who has been on the other side of that and been betrayed and had their trust betrayed. And so one of the things I love about you is I know that you've experienced both sides.

Veronica: 10:34

Absolutely. I was gonna say, I am, I am I am a product of both sides of that narrative. And it's funny that you came here to this spot because my spot is across the street in two two separate areas across the street with two separate incidences and two separate gentlemen.

Marvin aka Morgan Hale: 10:52

Okay, perfect. This is perfect, yay. I love it. See, it's like it's meant to be it's meant to be. Yeah, I mean, like, you know, as humans we have morals and we have judgments, and different and not everybody has the same morals and judgments, you know, and but like I mean, I still believe in God and my views about God have changed. But what I'm certain of is that God sees all this stuff. He knows, she knows, whatever, you know, version gender. I think it could be both. Um, sees it all, knows it all, and I think made us exactly the way that we are.

Veronica: 11:27

Yes.

Marvin aka Morgan Hale: 11:28

And knew exactly what we were gonna do. Absolutely and I don't believe gets nearly as bent up and upset and angry and judgmental on any of that stuff about it as we do.

Veronica: 11:41

Well, yeah, because we as humans overthink, over-exaggerate, and get overly emotional about other people's situations. Like, why are we so focused on some somebody else's doings? Why what I do makes you so angry? Are you so upset that I chose to sleep with a married man or stayed faithful to an ex-husband, now ex-husband, a husband who cheated on me. There's like you said, God sees it. He sees it all, but he also gives us these paths. These paths were created, and we made the choice to walk down it or not, but the paths were there for a reason. So yeah, I agree. We know it's funny because this I'm gonna jump into a story because this is what it is. I was divorced, I got divorced finalized in 2019, right? Okay, very tumultuous marriage, abusive mentally, physically, emotionally. I mean, just draining, draining. Um, my ex-husband was an addict, he was in and out of rehabs, jails, any roller coaster ride you can think of, we were on it. We were on it, and I was riding with him the whole time. You know, infidelity, there was just there was so much happening, so much happening, and I was so stuck in my head and this codependency that I had for him that I I knew, I knew the infidelities were happening. I knew he was sleeping with other women or he was pretending he was going to, or whatever the case may be, there were like 14 different women a span of eight years, and probably more that I didn't know about. And I say faithful, yeah, because in my mind I was taught and told, you know, cheating is bad, don't step out on your husband. I'm a Catholic, so you know, there's you don't get divorced, we don't do that. But when it came down to it, not you know, I spoke to my priest and he was like, Oh, yes, absolutely, you can get a divorce. And I'm like, I didn't really need his permission, but it felt good to me at the time to know that okay, uh, I can walk away from this and be alright because I've done everything I could do. Yeah, in that time span of being with my husband, I never stepped out, I never cheated. He made me feel bad about my sexuality, watching porn. Why am I watching porn when I have him? Right? Why do I want a sex toy if I'm not using it while dealing with him? Well, because you get on the motherfucking nerves, and sometimes I just want to take care of myself, okay, and not have you bother me. Also, at the same time, we as women, and I this is not all women, but these are the majority of women that I meet. We most women like other women. We find them beautiful, they're attractive, we watch them in pornography, we watch them in real life, and we want to experience that. So a lot of times I would be watching lesbian porn and enjoy it so much more than my husband in real life and dealing with him. So got divorced from him, jumped back on the scene of many men and finding my way. But there was one gentleman who I met, and I mean I did. I jump I went to Vegas for a weekend and had a one-night stand with just some cute guy I saw at the buffet. I said, Oh, he's I want him. And handed him my number, gave him my room number, and that night done, perfect, so good. Didn't even talk to him the next day. I was like, Oh, I like this, I like doing this. So then, you know, and also by having an eight-year marriage of just you know, abuse, you really start to think down on yourself. So it was I am a 30-something-year-old woman, I have two children, different dads, if you want to call them that, because they don't do anything, you know what I mean? So now this that narrative was stuck in my head because that's what was beat down on me. You'll never find anybody, they won't want you for anything but sex, and you you are nothing. So I took that and flipped it. Okay, bet. Well, maybe I don't want them but for sex. Maybe that's all I want. So I took that and ran with it. Yeah, sure. I went from being married and being in a relationship for 10 years to literally creating what I called my roster. I had a roster, I had a starting five and I had my bench, my bench.

Marvin aka Morgan Hale: 16:00

Love it.

Veronica: 16:01

I did. So if one of the starting five fucked up, guess what? You're out the game, and I'm bringing in somebody off the bench. And it worked rather well. So it was these men that I would see on social media. I wasn't even on dating sites, it was social media, and I'm like, oh, he's cute, DM. Oh, he's fine, ooh, DM. And I literally would just say, Yo, you you look good. It was the simplest phrases, and they would come back and they were interested. And I'm like, oh, okay, I've got it.

Marvin aka Morgan Hale: 16:27

Right, I've got it.

Veronica: 16:28

Let's make this work.

Marvin aka Morgan Hale: 16:29

Yeah. So I mean the story that my ex-husband tried to tell me.

Veronica: 16:32

Yeah, like what was that? That that was just to keep me down and to mentally abuse me. That I learned that therapy after that. But then I would, I would have these men, there'd be college athletes. College athletes. There were married men for sure. There were single guys, but it was also, I had strict rules too. I did not date. Don't ask me out on a date. You cannot stay the night, don't bring no spin-a night bag to my house. You cannot come between the hours, you can only come, excuse me, between the hours of 9 30 and 11:30. You get there, you perform, and you get the fuck out. That's what it was. And the men really thought I was kidding. And I'm like, no, right, man. You show up at 11 o'clock, guess what? You have 30 minutes to do what it is you need to do with me, and then you have to go.

Marvin aka Morgan Hale: 17:18

Right, yeah, yeah.

Veronica: 17:19

So I did that for a good year. I mean, solid, a solid year, and I had this roster. And don't get me wrong, I had a couple of men that I felt some type of way about and had feelings for, but then cut it off real quick. Like, oh no, this is not what I'm gonna be doing. And you're not right. In the mix of all of that, there were two different gentlemen that kind of weasel their way into my heart a little bit. And one of which had a fiance, knew this going in, did not give a fuck. Yeah. Wanna know why? Because he was fine as hell, and I didn't care. It was like, I I don't care. I don't want him for anything more than a a good sexual experience. If even if that, because I didn't know at that time.

Marvin aka Morgan Hale: 18:04

Yeah, right. So you were on an adventure.

Veronica: 18:06

I was, yeah, I was on an adventure.

Marvin aka Morgan Hale: 18:08

And you were like giving yourself permission. Yeah.

Veronica: 18:11

Yeah. And here's the thing. I know if people knew me and they knew what I was doing, they would look at me like you're a bad person.

Marvin aka Morgan Hale: 18:21

Right.

Veronica: 18:22

Sure, if that's how you see it. I don't see it that way. Because again, God said God opened a path. It was there. Also, the gentleman opened up the path. The gentleman was the one who actually approached me in that manner. So I signed up my kids for the training that he had going on. And and that was even before I knew how good looking he was.

Marvin aka Morgan Hale: 18:45

Right.

Veronica: 18:46

The first session, I was like, oh my God, he is just to die for. Good Lord Almighty. And that very first night he asked for my phone number, but he he made it seem like it was on a professional level. Yeah. So I took it. Yeah. Obviously. He's texting, had texted the first week every single day, trying to figure out if I was interested, if I would keep my mouth closed, because I don't think he realized that I knew he was engaged because he didn't say anything. But I found out through the grapevine he was. Yeah. So he brought it up. He said he was a practicing Muslim and he wanted to open his family up and have multiple wives or girlfriends and this and I said, Oh, okay, great. Love it. See you three days a week. The other one can have me the rest. I don't need you anymore. You want to help me with my bills? Perfect. I love this dynamic. I love this idea. So for a good six months, it was a good so it was a good, solid time. I was sleeping with just him and maybe like one or two other people that would come in and out of my life. But solid six months, definitely other people coming in and out. The sex was great. He looked good. I met his fiance at one point. She obviously, once I realized she didn't know about me and him, I was like, Alright, he's trying to pull some funny shit, but I didn't care. I kept going with him. I fell for him. I was like, this is great. I like this. I like this concept, this ideal, how he wants to have these double families. I'm cool with that. Okay. And it got to the point where he was starting to feel guilty, so he broke it off with me. And I was like, okay, very emotional about it. Whatever. But I was already at that like cutthroat stage. Okay, you don't want any more fun. Done.

Marvin aka Morgan Hale: 20:26

Yeah.

Veronica: 20:27

We don't need to talk anymore. Cut off. It wasn't nothing, but three days later, he shows back up on my front door. On my doorstep, wanting to continue. I was like, okay, that's fine. Let's go. Let's continue. For him, and this is a spot because we used to meet up right over there.

Marvin aka Morgan Hale: 20:44

Should we go?

Veronica: 20:45

Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Because that was one of our main spots we met up at. And it was actually one of my peaceful places that I would go by myself when the weather is nice and sit and read a book or something like that. And he ruined it for me.

Marvin aka Morgan Hale: 21:03

I was wondering, yeah, how you would feel about having those things.

Veronica: 21:08

He it was alright at first because he was very peaceful, and the things that we were doing were very peaceful, and there was no drama. And it was alright. But then when he broke it off with me, he broke it off with me there. I was like, see, that you just ruined my space for me. But this is also the gentleman that like he couldn't figure out what he wanted. So this is my filthy little secret outside of this original secret of sleeping with this man is that one night I was this was going into COVID. So I was an essential worker just doing a random, like almost night shift early mornings. I'd go in at 1 a.m. and I would be done by 6 30 in the morning. He obviously we're all stuck at the house. His fiance stuck at the house. We had nowhere to go. We couldn't be out. This is when they were really flagging people like you can't drive, you need to be at home. This was early onset COVID, like people were going crazy. And he messaged me and was like, Hey, do you want to come to my house before you go to work? And I said, Wait, what do you mean? Because isn't your fiance at home? Right. And this is midnight. Yeah, she's asleep. She sleep upstairs. I feel like this is one of your favorite stories that I've told you before.

Marvin aka Morgan Hale: 22:26

Yes, I love this.

Veronica: 22:28

Yeah, so filthy little dirty secret. Right? Yeah. You ready? Yes. Because I don't think I told you the front end of this dirty little secret. Okay. Before I got to his house, there was another gentleman who I had randomly met at my job and I was slightly interested in. But you know, sometimes when the guys pull off their face masks, you're like, oh, they're not cute. That was kind of what it was.

Marvin aka Morgan Hale: 22:57

But I was like, put your mask back on.

Veronica: 22:59

Put your mask back on, but your dick was big. I saw him in the picture. Great. A lot of times I need references because I don't want to waste my time. That was another big thing. Hey, if you waste my time, if you have a small dick, I'm gonna send you home. I can't, I don't like to fake it. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna make you feel good about yourself when you and I can't make me feel good, period. Right. Let's not do that. So he came over around and within my 9 30 to 11:30 time frame. And yeah, we fucked. Um, it was pretty good. It was alright. It wasn't the best, but it was okay. Did the job. And then I got the text from the other gentleman who I was, you know, infatuated with. This was this was a number one player on my roster. Like, this is somebody that I was like, I want to be starting lineup. I wanted to be around him. So I'm like, oh, you want me to come to your house? Oh, okay, sure. I'm like, told the other guy to get lost. Goodbye. No, we've already finished, we've done, we've had sex, been there, done that, all that good junk. And I took a shower, rinsed off best I could, and I took myself over to his house. I'm like, hey, you know what? It's midnight, it's technically another day. So it doesn't count. It's another day. It's not two guys one day, it's two guys different day. It's fine. Not that there's anything wrong. Anybody out there, you do you, if that's how you want to do it. I know judgment, but in my mind, I was I was like talking about myself. So I go to his house, I sneak around back to his garage. Um, he lets me in. We have to be super quiet because his fiancee is asleep upstairs. He takes me into his living room. Okay. Okay. And literally, two seconds in, he's bending me over on the ottoman and going at it from the back. Just pounding. Didn't matter. He finishes. As soon as he finishes, we hear footsteps right above us. Oh wow. So his fiance was up. She got up, she walked from her bedroom and went to their daughter's room because their daughter woke up, got their daughter, walked back to her bedroom and shut the door. And we were standing downstairs butt naked. There was nowhere, there was nowhere to run if she was coming down the stairs the way their house was set up. Yeah. So he wanted to keep going because I guess he had finished what he wanted another round. And I was like, you know what? Kind of done. That's crazy. Uh, because I just think that's doing too much. We've already done it, it's there, it's completed. Yeah. So I clean up and I leave. And side note, the fiance, she was cool. I met her a couple of times. I'd been around her. I'd been to their house for Memorial Day. You know, I'd been in their house plenty of times when she was around. She was cool, but she was fucking useless. She was somebody who would sit around, smoke weed, and not look for a job while her fiance worked two jobs, ran a business, and would have the baby with him at said business. To me, I don't like that. I don't like somebody being taken advantage of. I don't like somebody to just sit around and be like, oh, well, I'm doing the best I can, but you went and did two fucking Uber Eats, you know, runs and that's it.

Marvin aka Morgan Hale: 26:27

Yeah.

Veronica: 26:28

So it had been like that for a while too.

Marvin aka Morgan Hale: 26:30

Yeah, because the whole time I've known you, I mean, you've been a hustler, you've worked your ass off, you know, to like and on your own, taking care of your kids. Yes, I can see how for you, somebody who is doing what she's doing, you're like, oh, I'm gonna fuck your man.

Veronica: 26:44

Yeah, absolutely, because you're taking advantage of your partner in one way or another, you're taking advantage of your partner, and I don't like that at all. And granted, yes, he's cheating on you, but at the same time, I could ask, you know, you what do you have going on in the bedroom? Are you doing anything to satisfy his needs outside of the norm? And even are you satisfying the normal needs? So it was only a couple weeks later that I get a phone call around 11 p.m. at night and from his phone, and I'm thinking it was him, and it was not, it was his fiance, and he had decided that the guilt was getting so bad for him that he needed to tell her that we were sleeping together, or like I should say this that we slept together because he only told them that we had slept together. I am I'm the type of person that I'm not petty nor vindictive in certain situations. It's not my business to tell. So if your man chose to tell you that we slept one time, slept together one time at my house, I'm gonna say the same thing. Yeah, because in the end, I'm not there to to hurt people intentionally, right? And to go off and to tell this fiance that story, like girl, I got fucked in your living room while you were sleeping. Right, that that can be so damaging to hear, and it's not my it's not my business nor my place to damage her like that. Yeah, as much as I didn't like her, that's not for me. That ended that, although recently this past year, he has hit me up on WhatsApp to to all of a sudden check in and see what I'm doing and want to link up again. But I don't go backwards either. Let me say that. If I end something or it's ended with me and we haven't messed around for a significant amount of time, I won't do it again. It's over. My infatuation or excitement about it is done for.

Marvin aka Morgan Hale: 28:47

Gotcha. Yeah.

Veronica: 28:48

So that was that one. That was fun. Yeah.

Marvin aka Morgan Hale: 28:52

I love it. Yeah, I mean, you know, here's the thing. There's so many people, I know there's so many people out there who have these type of stories on the next episode.

Veronica: 29:02

It was a long time after that. It had to be like six months, seven months. I'd get a friend request on Snapchat. And we all know what Snapchat is used for.

Marvin aka Morgan Hale: 29:14

Okay.

Veronica: 29:16

I see you. So that was my end. That was my oh hey, my door is open. Come in.

Marvin aka Morgan Hale: 29:24

And this series on the eroticism of infidelity. Thanks for listening to Filthy Little Secrets. I hope we left light free inspire to explore your filthy sexual horizon. If you want more, subscribe to get all the filthy feature button. If you're a sex positive woman and like to burn another, I want to talk to you. Wanna come on the show and tell your story? Go to MorganHalebook.com slash podcast to learn more. That's M-O-R-A-N-H-A-L-E books.com slash podcast. Until next time, it's Morgan Hale to keep it real and okay.