Filthy Little Secrets
A show where women get real about sex.
To praise pleasure.
And bless boldness.
One candid conversation at a time.
Join us for this heart to heart chat about something most of us think about, dream about, and even yearn for, but few of us feel comfortable admitting it, talking about it, or celebrating it.
Let's get filthy together.
Learn more at https://filthylittlesecrets.com/
Filthy Little Secrets
Double the Fun: Adventures in Polyamory and Kink with Araña and Mesh
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Get ready for a juicy ride in this episode of Filthy Little Secrets! Host Marvin (aka Morgan Hale) sits down with Araña and Mesh, two adventurous souls who open up about their journeys into polyamory and kink. They’ve each carved out a life filled with love, pleasure, and community—and they’re here to spill the details.
You’ll hear about:
✨ The realities of kitchen table polyamory and the colorful dynamics of their polycule
✨ Wild adventures at kink conventions like Frolicon
✨ How they navigate fantasies, pleasure, and the importance of consent in sex-positive spaces
✨ Mesh’s candid story of exploring consensual non-consent kink
✨ Araña's adventure into exploring her free use kink
✨ Tips and insights for anyone curious about polyamory or hosting kinky events
This episode is raw, funny, and full of heart—blending laughter with unfiltered honesty about what it means to live authentically in love and desire. Whether you’re new to polyamory, curious about kink, or simply love a good story, Araña and Mesh will have you hooked.
During the show, Araña and Mesh shared the following websites and books:
Frolicon Conference: https://frolicon.com/
Dr. Elisabeth Sheff: https://elisabethsheff.com/
More Than Two book: https://thornapplepress.ca/books/more-than-two/
Several Books By Dr. Emily Nagoski: https://www.emilynagoski.com/books
Welcome to Filthy Little Secrets, the show where real everyday women get real about sex. We're here to shatter stigma and trample taboo one candid conversation at a time. My name's Marvin, but my readers know me as Morgan Hale, filthy romance author. And I'm your host for this heart-to-heart chat about something most of us think about, dream about, and even yearn for. But few of us feel comfortable admitting it, talking about it, or celebrating it. So let's get filthy together.
Introducing Our Polyamorous Guests
SPEAKER_03All right, everyone. We are having a filthy little secrets first today, because this is the first time that we are graced with not just one guest, but two. And it's a conversation that I'm personally very excited about because most of my listeners will know that I'm a polyamorous person and have been on a long up and down rocky journey and coming to that. And I have had a couple of other guests who are polyamorous, but I have yet this is the first time that I've had two polyamorous people on the the show together who have experienced, I believe, in some kind of way. We're gonna dig into exactly what it looks like. But uh anyway, I'm super grateful to both Aranya and Mesh to be here today to share a little bit about themselves with us and let us there definitely are gonna be listeners I know who have probably don't actually know if they know polyamorous people in their life, they don't know that they're polyamorous, and they probably have not, you know, actually had like the up close and personal to see what it really looks like, and maybe they've seen poor depictions of it in the mainstream media, but you know, so I'm I'm really grateful to the two of you that y'all are are willing to come here today and talk about
Araña's Journey to Polyamory
SPEAKER_03it. So, so how about Iranio? I just want to start with you because I don't even know if I know this story. Like, when did you figure out that you were polyamorous?
SPEAKER_00Okay, so um I I f let's see the first polyamorous relationship I was in was 25 years ago, 20 is that right? 2000, 2001, 24 years ago. And when I discovered polyamory, it was still a pretty new word in the world of of kink and all things different than society. And uh I met a girl, and at the time I was still defining myself as bisexual. I don't anymore. Um, I've got new words for it, but uh at the time I was, and I met a girl and I met her guy, and they were like, we're polyamorous. And I was like, what is that? And and I thought, well, this sounds cool. And so I was a unicorn for a year, um, limbs and change with them. Um and then I started looking as I learned more about it. I started looking in my past, and I was, and there were signs. Well, before I discovered I was polyamorous, like uh there was a guy dated in high school who um my friend was into and he was into my friend. I was like, well, you all should just date. It's fine. Um so there were definitely signs that I had um tendencies to be low on jealousy. Um, not that that's a requirement for polyamory, it's just true for me, and high on compersion, which for anybody who doesn't know in your listener group is the opposite of jealousy. It's finding joy in others' joy. And I don't really think of love as possession. It ended up being a, you know, I found it 24 years ago. I've been in and out of it since then. And now I'm sodly in it. I would say it's no longer a thing I'm doing. It's a it's an identity. I am polypressed and it's no going back. That Pandora's box cannot be closed ever again.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. I fail you on that big time. I mean, that's something that I continually think about for myself because I mean, when I first discovered the concept of it, I came by way of a hospitalization in the psych hospital because I'd gotten so depressed being monogamous. I was life was just crumbling, you know, for me on the inside. And um, and I didn't know poly was a thing. I didn't know it was a word. I just thought I was broken. And that's so cool that you found it 24 years ago that it you just, you know, like but I had the same experience of like looking back, hindsight is 2020, right? And being like, oh yeah, there was that and there was this. And there was some I was there, right? Yeah. I was even thinking about this, it was kind of interesting. I was talking to my son about this because I'm trying to think about how to say this without adding any word. I had a very early experience, let's say that, of a girl that I was dating, who she after going on a trip, came back and confessed to me that she had kissed somebody else and she felt really guilty. And I was like, I don't see the big deal. I just really I I still remember the feeling of being like, okay, you're clearly very upset and feel really bad about yourself that you did this, but I'm really okay. And this was like anyway, it was a while ago. Yeah, it's kind of funny how it's just different, and I didn't have a language for it at the time. Well, okay,
Mesh's Path to Polyamory
SPEAKER_03so mesh, how about you? How did you come into this wild weird world of minimum?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, the the hindsight being 2020 is a real thing. I mean, I came into it, I guess officially, whatever they I started living what, like 18 months ago, something like that? Like, but I remember like growing up as a kid, like seven, eight years old, you know, you're just kind of learning what marriage is and all of this stuff, and being like, Well, I don't get it. Like, why would one person want to be with one other person forever? Like for their everything. Like, don't people change and stuff? Like, how does that that doesn't make sense? You know? So yeah, hindsight is very 2020. But I I took a long time and a lot of steps in my life to actually discover it and uh be able to land in a place where, you know, I have great partners, I have great metamors, it's just a very happy life.
Exploring Kink Conventions
SPEAKER_05Yeah, you can't you really came to it through kink, right? Yeah. I did. I discovered the whole BDSM world and all of that stuff. And that I mean, you you go to conventions and things like that, so you hear about a lot of concepts and and you can take classes to learn about them if you're curious, you know. It's a it's a great way to kind of broaden your spectrum. Um, but I started meeting people who were polyamorous and learning a little more about it. And I don't know, I others might disagree, but I feel like I took to it like a duck to water.
SPEAKER_03So that's awesome. Well, so I mean, so for because I mean I think I'll probably will have listeners who aren't real familiar with the kink world, they're you know not familiar with any kind of conventions or stuff like that. Like when you were going to these and you're talking about you were like getting education, I don't know.
SPEAKER_05It is if you were to try to explain that to somebody who'd never seen it or heard of it or been to it before, like what would you for you, what was that experience that well, I mean, any kind of of convention that you might go to, you're gonna have like panels and you're gonna have speakers and you're gonna have events and parties and all this kind of stuff. You know, for me, I uh some college friends introduced me to a fairly small convention that was like just a really good group of people coming together and saying, Hey, we wanna we wanna make a space that is safe for people who are living any kind of alternative lifestyle. And I mean, it's everything from board games to a dungeon that they run at night uh for people who want to play. Um, so a couple of weeks before the convention opens up, you get this schedule that is, you know, 10 a.m. until 2 a.m. You know, here is six different things going on every hour where people are talking about, you know, do you want to learn how to tie someone up in rope? Do you want to learn how to give better beatings? Do you want to learn how to um submit more, you know, or round table discussions for people who are interested in the same thing and want to share information? And so I will say polyamory wasn't a big part of that back when I started going to it in 2006, I think. It's its own track now, so yeah, but it's it's grown to be fully like one of the segments um that has its own full programming.
SPEAKER_03So that's cool. I've actually never been to an event like this.
SPEAKER_00I think filthy little secrets should plan next year to go to this conference and do Filthy Little Secrets at the event. Oh yes. That would be epic.
SPEAKER_04That would be epic.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I um I re-engaged with this same convention in the last couple of years. And here's a smattering of the things I went to. I went to a doll education class. The first time I went, I went to things like how to swing a whip classes. Um, I I gave a presentation on polyamory last year. I think that's right. And um I have, but I also went to the fisting competition and the naked game and the right. So it's classes where you can learn, but then it's also things you can go explore and do, which makes it uh really like, let's just go see what happens. Now, if you're in the middle of opening up your relationship, it could be a lot. It might be a lot to do that for yeah, you might want to have really good communication and check-in policies if you're real new to being in an open relationship, but but they have all the different varieties of non-monogamy there too, all the way from swinging to polyamory. Um, and I would define myself as polyamorous with a heavy dose of swing. Okay.
SPEAKER_05You participate as much or as little as you like, and you shouldn't feel entirely comfortable in whatever level you choose. Otherwise, it's not one of the good ones, and you should run away.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it should be and you should get good at how knowing what your boundaries are and being able to speak them in the moment because things are gonna come up in the moment. You need to be ready to do it.
unknownYeah.
Polyamory and Kink: A Deeper Dive
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So, I mean, are y'all comfortable saying which event this was that you are talking about that she?
SPEAKER_00This is for Alacon. It's out of Atlanta. Um in May. And I think you're out of pre-sale tickets now. Yeah. Yeah. And the book the hotels are all booked, so keep it on your radar for next year. That would be my recommendation.
SPEAKER_03Awesome. I'll put that in the show notes for anybody who's curious. Yes. Okay.
SPEAKER_05I do need to do that because I mean that's just it's sort of been one of those things that I'm like, I should really at some point, and I I haven't ever been to uh it was kind of pivotal for me just because I was in a relationship at the time that ended up being a 15-year marriage that didn't have a lot of uh healthy communication around sex. So it really became like it's a it's a very welcoming, accepting, almost loving kind of space. You know, what whoever you are, whatever you're into, it's okay you have a place here is kind of the vibe. So it became a very basically my yearly sexual outlet, right? It became a very big deal to me when I was in a a not great space with my sexuality otherwise.
SPEAKER_00Um gotcha. Yeah, they have a whole policy. They have a whole policy there of don't yuck each other's yum. So anything goes as long as it's consensual in between adults. So that's really the the critical thing. In the same week last year, there was a furry convention. So we didn't have any furries at this convention, but there's another one.
SPEAKER_03They all went to the furry convention.
SPEAKER_00Furries went to the furry convention, everybody else at the other one.
SPEAKER_03Um, I mean, are either of you, would you be comfortable like kind of unpacking a little more what when you go to those conventions or the things that light you up that you're going for?
SPEAKER_00Well, the first year I went back, I I had so I went through a pretty significant depression nine years ago. Um, and I as I was I basically had an identity crisis. And as I was working through therapy to reshape who I am and to really define my identity, I got through all the, you know, the important stuff, important stuff. I think sexuality is important too, but I got through all the like critical um, you know, uh support beams. And I was on to like room design in the room of me. And um I made it to the sex room and I started to sort of write down the things I knew I liked and the things I didn't like and the things that I had tried before but thought I might want to try again, things I hadn't tried yet. And I just like journaled it, all the things. Um I now I now often hand it to new partners, like here's the shirt I like. It turns out to be great shorthand. People are like, oh, this is so nice. Um some people get a little overwhelmed by it, but it's uh most people like this is so nice. Um, and so when I went back to on the first time, I was like, okay, I'm here to embrace joy. I'm gonna explore anything that looks like it might be joyful or interesting to me, and then see what changes and just go with that exploration in mind. And what I have found is that spirit of adventurousness and joy finding is a core part of who I am and uh a significant part of how I like to embrace sexuality. So I just do that every year, whatever seems interesting. I think this year I'm going to participate in the swinger party as just watching. So that is uh that's the thing that's on my radar as uh go play in that uh well.
SPEAKER_03And you said I think you said naked twister. You said some things that I was like, ooh, that kind of caught my interest too. You said it was the naked twister, and what was the other thing? Fisting contest, fisting contest. Yeah, it was all kinds of okay. Break it down for me about the fisting contest. Like, are you when you're are you like I was an observer? You were an observer, okay. An observer Aranya was yeah, but like in a participant, but I was an observer. You're checking it out. This was like the joyful exploration to see, hey, does it slight me up? Do you all want to compete next time? Getting fisted? Are you fisting?
SPEAKER_00The contest is for the people doing the fisting.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_00Uh the uh um, so the contest for the people doing the fisting, and they um it's they are they're doing it with five people, and those five people are blindfolded and have sensory deprivation. They have like noise canceling headphones on and blindfolds on, so they can't see who it is or hear anything going on around them, which meant which means that everybody can smack talk around them while they're in the middle of stuff. And you get like extra points if you get your whole hand in in a certain amount of time, and if you manage to make it a wet listing.
SPEAKER_04Oh, right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, um, and the people receiving can be male or female. Um, so it's pretty cool the way they do it. Um it it it was messy and fun to watch, and uh um and the lesbians win, is my uh yeah, they have an unfair advantage.
SPEAKER_03So so in terms of the like how scoring are the receiving participants are they at the end of each testing uh session, are they like scoring?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they give a they give an assessment back.
SPEAKER_03So they also get like how was it as a I gotcha? Yeah, okay, cool. See, this is so much fun. This is like I feel like this is something that there's gonna be people that listen to this are gonna be like, whoa, that's a thing.
SPEAKER_00There was a squirting competition too. And Alison, you get involved in Jeopardy, right?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, kinky Jeopardy is a lot of fun. Trip twister, a lot of people's favorite is the uh dueling sibians, and they're looking into a way to make it a Mario Kart race. So I'm really looking forward to that.
SPEAKER_03That sounds brilliant. How okay, like I'm just trying to wrap my head.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I mean, you figure you've got those Kegel exerciser things that you can play video games with, why not Mario Kart? Right.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, pick up a Sybian as a like, I guess, a controller for Mario Kart, and then you're using and you're you're using your Kegels to control and your hips, I guess, to control your car. Uh-huh. Wow, that's brilliant. That is so brilliant.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So I mean, really, if you're a person who who is excited by the idea of exploring sexuality as play and fun, Frolican is a good place to do it. You could be serious there too. Like you can go and be serious about it. But it is it is a an adult playground for sure.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, gotcha.
SPEAKER_05And I mean, there are there are panels on um, there's a mental health track, there's a writer's track for people who want to write, usually some form of erotic literature. Um, you know, there's there's a lot more to it than just the play side, but it is definitely a great place to go play.
SPEAKER_03So there was there was one thing that you said, and I'm I'm almost meant to stop you because um I was like, oh, wait, I want to hear more about that. It was before you mentioned the oh my gosh, my brain. You were listing off some things. No, mesh was talking, she listed off some different things.
SPEAKER_05Kinky Jeopardy, strip sister.
SPEAKER_03Thank you, Kinky Jeopardy. Okay, break that down for me. What is Kinky Jeopardy?
SPEAKER_05What I mean, so the same game that you know and love is Jeopardy, right? It's categories, 100, 200 point questions, all of that. Um, the categories are obviously themed, um, usually around something sexual. Um, I think one of my favorite categories I can remember is they got what stuck where, and it's news articles from around the country, right? That you might have heard about. Um but yeah, I mean it's all kinds of stuff. There's even some like legal categories, you know, those weird laws, like too many people in a room with their shoes off is an orgy, and so it's illegal. Like, but anyway, so the the particular twist at Trollocon is the um the contestants are playing the game, but you need buzzers. So the contestants all line up behind their buzzers who are usually bent over the table and whack them uh in order to cause them to buzz when they want to answer the question.
SPEAKER_03That's awesome. That is that who came up with this conference.
SPEAKER_00They're amazing people. They're amazing people, so it's a lot of fun, and your your listeners should check them out and check out any of the local ones to them. And uh there's quite a few in Florida too that I've heard of good. Yeah, don't I'm sure there's some in California.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. But and you should filthy little secrets should come.
SPEAKER_03I think you're right. I think that's the such a good idea. I'm definitely gonna and I don't know. I mean, I I guess maybe you do know some of the people that coordinate the I feel like I probably need to meet some people. I should go. That's the first step. That's right. All right. Um okay, all right.
Understanding Polyamorous Dynamics
SPEAKER_03So, so present day, I mean you both found your age, Polly Amory. Present day, well, I have to say, first of all, one of the most impressive like diagrams of a polycule that I've ever seen. And a polycule for listeners is sort of a diagram of all of the different people that are related to each other in this loving, interconnected network, and they could be sexual relationships, romantic relationships, amorous in whatever kind of way, but they're all connected uh to each other in what sort of looks like a molecule, but it's a polycule. Aranya one day had sat down and she had a note, it was like a little spiral-down notebook, I think. And you opened up and you showed me you had your at the time polycule diagrammed out, and I was like, this is amazing. But so what does each of y'all's polycule look like currently?
SPEAKER_00I'm gonna we're in the same polycule. So this will um I we are um, I would say we have a polycule and an extended polycule, just like you have a family and an extended family, and our main polycule is made up of four people. Um, we are, I'm gonna use my labels and then Mesh, she could put whatever label she won on it. But my anchor partner is G, who's married to M. She and I have just started calling each other girlfriends, but we're mostly not sexual except occasionally when we're in the mood. We call it situisexual. It's like situationally sexual. We're at a party, we're in a place where we want to show off. We know somebody else will be excited by it. Um inner exhibitionist gets the hold of both of us, and we're like, okay, let's go do that fun thing. And it's a good time, but I would say the sexual aspect is really casual. And then mesh is my roommate, nesting partner, and metamore. And we made up a word for us, uh, amicophilia, which is basically do women who are platonically in love with each other uh who share the love of a GPT. Um, and you know, uh, if you ever enter into a polyamory group, there are more labels than there are people. Okay, uh so that is how I would define our immediate polycule. And then we have an extended dot polycule. And I actually think mesh is the hinge between our polycule and another. I'll let her describe that one. Um and then there's like you know, some mattering of um of dating, of people I'm dating that might become long-term lovers or might slide back into casual sex. I don't know. And uh some people that I see at parties or events, um, but I don't schedule time with, like I said, heaping side of swing. Polyamory with a heaving side of swing is where I live. So um, so there's a little, you know, the bunch of other folk around who I play with. All right, Mitch, your turn.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I I tend to live less on the swing side of things. But yeah, so one of my partners came up with the um, I'm like the the body of the butterfly, and I really liked that idea. Um, but yeah, G and M and Arania. Um and then I have another partner, we'll call him A, who is married, and I'm trying to think how to describe everything. I'm also seeing one of her partners, and those are my my three main partners, I guess you could say. You know, I have other people I'll I'll go out and date and test the waters for lack of a better word. I mean, like anybody would in in monogamy or polyamory, but that's sort of my structure. I don't have it all nicely diagrammed out though. Two two interconnected spheres uh is is where I live. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um and in that her other polycule, I've been known to play with all three of those folks, actually. Um, but I'm not deeply invested in the relationships like she is, so um, they fall more into my swinging category for me, but um definitely a polycule for her.
SPEAKER_03Um the fun and joyful part of uh your okay.
unknownThis is fun.
SPEAKER_00Let's push our bodies together. This looks fun.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, this feels you know I had I had a conversation on there was another interview recently and wondering if are are either of y'all familiar with I think her name's Jaya. She has these like erotic blueprints. If y'all have heard of that framework at all. Well uh so I'm just gonna toss this out here and wonder how this lands on on both of you. So she frames the way that we're wired sexually kind of like love languages, I guess, is except it's like erotic languages. And she has four one is kink or I think it's kinky and she says that's really anything that like society might consider taboo or you know wrong the energetic which is somebody who's like super sensitive to just sexual energy and can and somebody who's like really high energetic can actually have like orgasmic experiences without touch at all.
SPEAKER_04That's neat.
SPEAKER_03Oh really that is so cool. Oh my god I asked this question it's so interesting to me how different people you know experience so then another one is the sensual and that's somebody who the senses like the smells and the touch and the and like they tend to really like the slow build through yeah I I I almost think of it as cat like touch me pet me let's stroke each other yeah uh very cool and then the last one is the sexual which is just like let's fuck and um so but what was interesting is this conversation I had recently this woman she's a swinger and she was I mean and I think you know if if you had a peg or in any of those like she's a let's fuck person and it was so interesting to just hear her describe it and I found I had to step away from it and kind of shed some just old narratives about what a woman should or shouldn't be and I wasn't really aware of it during the conversation. I was just feeling kind of awkward when she was talking and I was like what is this about and later I was like what was up with me and I was like oh that's like some old bullshit that I'm still carrying around that's like wouldn't really allow you know a person to just be who they are or whatever it is. So anyway.
SPEAKER_05It's something that polyamory has done for me a lot um and not that that's the only path to it but um you know there's a lot of work mental work that goes into being in these spaces and uh yeah it's it's very good for bringing up that kind of stuff that like you didn't know you were still carrying around but suddenly now you can see it. And that's that's kind of the first step to being able to change your mindset or eliminate that from your thinking is being able to recognize it.
SPEAKER_00For sure. I just because I'm at my computer but I kept her book and we're I'm gonna put it I'm gonna get I'm gonna get G to our audio server.
SPEAKER_03Yeah well yeah I I have not dug deep into her stuff yet there the actually I think it was the third guest that I had on the show is like in private mentorship one-on-one with her and so she spoke spoke very highly of her and she was like if you don't know about erotic blueprints you should check it out and that's what I did but but since having her on the show um there's been other guests who have also mentioned her to me and said you know that her work really did a lot for them and so I was like okay I need to study up on this which I still have to do I haven't really done but anyway.
SPEAKER_00So you're energetic oh yeah oh yes um uh mesh often says she wish she could she could get a blood transfusion so that she could have the same body experience as I do it is I am like easy um I'm easy mode for anybody trying to learn how to get a woman off I am easy mode um and uh it's a real good time and it's a real messy time that's so beautiful very cool and it comes together something you were saying earlier in the episode you know about feeling like you're not alone like there's nothing wrong with you you know and I loved it when the sensual archetype whatever she calls them the the sensual thing came up was like I spent a long time feeling like I was broken because I wasn't easy mode you know and that's what porn in society says women should be you know when they're not giving the opposite message.
SPEAKER_05Um so yeah that's uh it's great to know that's out there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah in that same vein I don't think what I don't think what mood you're on makes any difference for how much shame you end up carrying because for women all the things are wrong. It doesn't matter I um my experience was being told I was too much because I always wanted it because I was easy because I liked it because I mean one time I had a guy get upset at me because I made him come too fast. Like what the hell? You know I've had people say that I that my touch felt like violation. I've had that happen before because my touch always came with the we could go to the bedroom with this like it was always that kind of way. When in fact I love to touch people just for the joy of touching them. And it doesn't ever have to go there. Me of my 20s and 30s wasn't very good about communicating around this. So part of what therapy did for me was give me a language around it and to be able to speak about it. So I got I'm too much because I want it all the time and my libido is too high. And and that's what society tells you they want women to have um and yet the men I was with were like no what are you doing? Why are we doing this again? You know um and mesh had the opposite you're too hard. It's I have to work too hard for this. And it's been really fun because we've been in our polycule her and I both have high libidos and we're with G, the male in our polycule together frequently but not with each other. We're not into each other that way. So there's a lot of time we get to just watch how the other receives touch um and what they experience and participate by saying things around the other one that we know will will help set them off or any number of things like that or you know just sit on the sidelines and masturbate whatever suits our fancy um but the um it's given us a visual into the other the other side and given us new language for it and really been able it's really fun to challenge our partner to see if he can remember who's he's touching at the moment. I like firm touch he likes soft touch and soft touch tickles me so okay so I'm I'm like filling in I'm not that you're really leaving a lot of blanks but I'm filling in a couple so I think what I'm picturing is G's blindfolded is that the case no no but that would be fun we'll do that soon code switching right yeah it's code switching like who's who is my hand on in this moment I was just touching he often has a thing well he'll have just been touching mesh who likes very soft touch and then he'll come to me and forget to switch into firmer touch and I'll be like that tickles and he'll be like sorry he'll fix it.
SPEAKER_03Or he'll be petting me really firmly and I'll be like can I have the touch that Aranya doesn't like please that's so cool though like I don't know I'm I'm uh I'm enchanted because you know I even really honestly in my own life I'm I have a lot more connections with people like in the swinging community. For me it's just been easier to find those people. I don't really have um a lot of connections anymore. I used to years ago with poly folks and uh and then the community that I was involved in kind of fizzled out in the Nashville area. And then I also had stuff going on and wasn't like able to kind of stay plugged in just what you're describing is that's I love the the playfulness and the freedom and like when you peel back the judgment and you peel back all that stuff and you just give yourself permission to just explore and be free and what can come out of humans when part in the pun. Yes exactly and how far can it go when it does?
SPEAKER_05I feel like it's a process of like removing layers of shame and the more you can do that and just have different experiences you know in it's being able to have different experiences in a way that feels okay to you. So there's a certain amount of you know knowing and and holding your own boundaries that goes into making this successful. But I feel like that peeling away and being able to see how other people make love or talk about you know what does that feel like when in your body when he does this it's it is something that's really healing and it's very um freeing just to know similarities, differences, it's okay, whatever it is, you know. And I think another aspect of Arania and I sharing a partner is I I can watch her and G together and feel the sensation in my own body because I know what that thrust feels like, right? So it's like almost echo sex.
SPEAKER_00I call it sense eight sex. It's like if you've not watched the show Sense 8, I highly recommend it. But I think it's that it's almost it's almost so in tune that when she orgasms I feel it in my body you know um and that is a pretty cool side effect that's happened um that I wasn't really expecting. It is a lot of fun. And you know sometimes it's all four of us and gets in she has a lower she probably is the lowest libido of all four of us. She finds it a relief that we're around sometimes because she will show up. But um I would say I think her libido is increasing lately. What do you think? It seems like it um but uh uh but it's been it's fun when it's all four of us too and we have weekends every I don't know we probably have it about every three or four months we have what we call a placation and we all stay in for the weekend playing and and it's a lot of sexual play but also we play board games and we cook together, you know, and eat together and talk and enjoy the world.
SPEAKER_03So that's awesome. God I love that so much that sounds that sounds magical.
SPEAKER_00It feels magical this is you know I'm I'm in the process
Navigating Relationships and Personal Growth
SPEAKER_00of getting divorced so up until if up until this relationship started I had this vision of what this could be like and and I will call this for your listeners kitchen table poly where we're really all in it together and we can wake up in the morning and have coffee at the kitchen table without any weirdness or awkwardness. In fact um it feels like a family. So we are definitely in kitchen table poly. And it's something I always visualized as what I thought should be and is possible. And I'm not saying it should be for everyone it should be for me.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_00And uh and then to find it and to land in this dynamic and have it be so fulfilling and rewarding and it's just I don't I don't know if I have enough gratitude in my body to really express how much gratitude there is for it. But it's it feels like a dream realized for me. And I believe relationships are transient. And if we're lucky and we're intentional, we're gonna have this relationship for the rest of our lives. We certainly have those intentions now and we're working that is a a shared goal. But um I'm now three times divorced and I know forever is maybe not reality and it makes it even more precious.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Because like you in this moment that you have it's beautiful and magical and forever however long it lasts whether it's years or decades or yeah I didn't know that that you were three times divorced. I mean do you I know for me I look back on the relationships that I've had and even though I you know was at some point deeply depressed and suicidal in in some cases I still feel like I would do it all again. You know it was all like part of my journey and I'm I mean I don't know how do you like looking back and you're probably so trying to navigate all that.
SPEAKER_00There's a part of me that's like Jesus if I had figured this out 20 years ago I could have had this for 20 years already. But I wasn't the person that could be here now then. That was a lot of weirdness the person I am today is not the person I was then and the person I was then wasn't ready for this. But all of the stuff that I've gone through over the last 24 years built towards this possibility. And frankly if I hadn't been through that last depression and the therapy that that created and my spouse hadn't also been through his own therapy, we probably would still be miserable together. And instead what we are is happier apart. And we de-escalated our marriage which is different this last marriage was a very different breakup. We de-escalated we're still friends we're great co-parents um there's still a few finances we need to separate and we negotiate that space really well and without any resentment or at least not any verbalized resentment. I speaking for myself and not him of course you know his experience is his own and I'm really speaking only from my experience but I think I feel like we've done a very good job of de-escalating into a healthy friendship and co-parent dynamic. He is now living monogamously with his partner of seven or eight years and she and I don't get along but he and I are doing fine. So yeah yeah and and Alison and I met as we were starting to separate from our last spouses.
SPEAKER_05So um we had separation bonding yes very much so um and I've
Dealing with Regret and Moving Forward
SPEAKER_05uh like a year divorced ish something like that. And one of the things that I struggled with a lot was regretting time wasted not trying to say my entire marriage was waste but saying like I'm so much happier now. I could have gotten here sooner. And you know I just remind myself that everything that I did I did when I was ready to do it. And I couldn't have done it before because I wasn't the person who was ready to do it. And sitting here regretting and woe is meing is just bringing the troubles from the past and letting it ruin my future let's let's leave that behind me and and move on with joy.
SPEAKER_03So wow I feel like this is a very schmoofy podcast for you probably so this is an like dude y'all are dropping some serious gold right now. So should we do a like a 90
Getting Into Filthy Stories
SPEAKER_03degree and move into something filthy what kind of filthy should we go to give us a give us okay so you guys the two of you mentioned that I think you had a was there was a party last night yes was there was a filthy party it was a filthy party there were probably 25 ish people there.
SPEAKER_00We had a lot of fun it yes it was a differently vibed one they themed it around the 420 date so it was way more mellow than usual and uh um which made it really great for mesh because it meant everybody was in very much of like a central touch mode.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_00Um and um the these parties it's some friends of ours who host and the they have like areas set up in their house for people. So there's like their main living area that's attached to the kitchen and the dining room where food is set up and then there's a gigantic beanbag chair and a room off to the side and you can go sit out on the front porch and if you go up to their top floor they have the a tower dungeon yes a sex tower yes um and it's got like one of those Chase Lounge liberator chairs in it and a couple of air you know mattresses in it and a sex swing and stuff hanging on the wall and um for use and they also pipe video from that room down to the TV in the main room so you can be up there and see it in the first floor which is so small you're on candid camera. Well it's not candid at all we all can see it everybody knows it's there right yeah exactly um and um it's a lot of fun I was I was on camera last night.
SPEAKER_05Oh nice okay yes confession time around you what was something filthy that you did at the party what's the filthiest thing I did well I mean can I tell you see where she was on camera because I was on the first floor while she was using her doctor okay so um her her partner is laid back on the Liberator which is shaped like a Shay's lounge and facing the camera. She's got her back to the camera on all fours and uh her hair is up in buns on top of her head with pinwheels sticking out of it and she is she is giving him a blowjob. So it's literally watching the pinwheels and the buns go back and forth on the camera with the view all the way up behind her. Uh-huh right exactly there's literally people sitting on the couches in the living room going we need to turn on a fan so the the pinwheels will spin faster.
SPEAKER_00They need a fan up there you'd think it was the blowjob that people were focused on but no it was the pinwheels I wore on my head. There were others focused on the blowjob but uh um and and we moved from that blowjob into me on top uh sex and I am a squirter and I wet the floor a good two feet out on either side of that lounge. So um so I was the filthy I love it.
SPEAKER_03That sounds like pretty good TV for the first one.
SPEAKER_00Yeah now I will say now I'm gonna tell mesh's story because I was on the observing end of that one. Mesh ended up on that gigantic beanbag and this is like an eight foot in diameter beanbag. This is not a small beanbag chair and she's on the beanbag with um well one partner on one side spooning her and fucking her and one person in the front side on her face and um in in between the two of them.
SPEAKER_03So I don't know I think yours is probably a little more um off the beaten path as it were nice okay so then the person who was in front at your face is this a male we're talking about a there's a penis in your face a penis having non-binary penis having non-binary partner. Oh okay I got it cool well let's get into this okay so mesh tell me about this experience like what what uh um I mean do you drop into like subspace in this kind of an experience or are you like what is it like for you?
SPEAKER_05Um it's not necessarily subspace you know both of the partners she's talking about are um sort of with me in the whole sensual touch thing. Um so it started with a lot of that and the partner behind me um said something along the lines of um hey I'm I'm gonna slip inside of you and I'll take the back half of you and and they can have the front half and you know do whatever they want kind of thing. So there was um petting and and breastplay and all that kind of stuff. But I am I am a fan of many hands at the same time um and I'm also a fan of having someone's dick in my mouth while I'm being fucked. So we ended up there. Um and uh it's funny I got a text today from a friend of mine who just discovered that um when you're really enjoying yourself andor orgasming your throat opens up and you can go much deeper than you normally can. It's just oh my God I'm like yep uh so yeah I think a good time was had by all that's amazing thank you for sharing that's good stuff.
SPEAKER_03See I didn't know that I mean but it got it makes sense not that I you know have the genitalia for that particular but I mean that's um I feel like that's a good tidbit for listeners you know that's one way to one way to get it to get it down the guzzle yes you can also practice practice does make better I have um I still have quite the gag reflex but my gag reflex is less than it used to be and I have found it means that when you do that thing where you like accidentally breathe water it is harder to actually gag on that like you're supposed to once you train yourself away from your gag reflex.
SPEAKER_00So you're like dying on water you accidentally breathed into your into your windpipe. Uh-huh body like forgets what to do.
SPEAKER_03Because you're like hey we don't need this gag reflex anymore we're gonna see uh cons and pros.
SPEAKER_00Be careful drinking your water I will share the the wildest
Exploring Free Use
SPEAKER_00thing I've done at one of these parties because we these parties happen every few months is I went for use to one of those parties um twice I went to these parties twice is for use and I have a QR code that people can scan that gives the base terms of use. So this is what must be true for you to play on this miss on this game. Right um and uh it is interesting to me how often people who even know me are intimidated by that by that sentence. What do you mean for use? You mean I can just do whatever I want yes as long as it's in these lines you can do whatever you want. And they still like come up and ask me and I'm like but that's for you come take this is not an asking situation please take as long as it's in these lines and people are really intimidated by it. It's one of the reasons why I want to do the swinger I want to participate in the swinger party at the conference coming up is they have a female glory hole set up there. So I'm gonna try that this year.
SPEAKER_03Oh fun that goes yeah so so you're I mean do you how do you feel about sharing like things that are on your free use list that you QR code share with people. Give me a second I'll pull it up and I can okay I feel like this would be good this would be good stuff.
SPEAKER_05I feel like it's intimidating because of choice paralysis but we do also have some very um you know consent focused friend groups but this this is my consent.
SPEAKER_00So it's a one pager Google doc and the QR code goes to the link for the Google doc. And the opener says um Arani is available at this event for free use of a sexual nature following the rules of play with this particular living toy. So I'm really getting into like the objectification and fuck toy play here. I consent to all of the following and we'll stop you if I have need this is uh feeding my free use objectification kink and I'm super excited about it.
SPEAKER_03So I'm really trying to make it clear that yeah I'm in yes for me.
SPEAKER_00This is a yes for me. Uh if you're and then I say if you need any reassurance or want to check something you're interested in before initiating just ask. So I give them away and then if you want to roll the spontaneity of it you can check with my current partners to or ask to see my longer more detailed list. So um remember I said I have that like journal list. So people if they want but they could go ask Mesh, we should be into this. And mesh would be like, yes. Yes, you can. So safety and health, um, use barriers unless pre-negotiated. Um, will not provide oral without current health records and will provide health records upon request. Um, boundaries, no means no, owl means no, and moving or pausing action with hands means no. Even if it's just a pause, it's a way for me to, if my mouth is otherwise occupied, I have a physical way to say no as well. Um will not pleasure women with mouth or hands, happy to be pleasured by women or wear dildo. So that is a fine approach for me. No sharp pain, thuds are okay after there's been pleasure. So I remember we talked about me being energetic and like you could blow on me funny and I might have a an orgasm. Um that means that pain is really painful for me. There isn't, it doesn't feel good. Um and then um lube up for anal go easy if you're first. So that's my boundaries list. Then I have a whole hell yes list. All three entrances on the body are open for use. You do not need to ask. You can take what you want if boundaries are maintained, man handling welcome. Um, multiple people at once is fine if you're fine with it. In fact, encouraged. Uh love penetration, enjoy it easy or rough. Um, penises, store-bought is fine. Toys or hands, nipple stimulation, a plus, and may cause orgasms. Come where you want within the limits of safety. Uh things to know. Careful she squirts. Put down a mat. May go nonverbal or be unable to talk, ask yes or no questions to address this. Um, check consent if you get a tickle response because soft touch, which tickles me, is the way my body says no. I'm my therapy has taught me that this comes from my childhood. I used to get tickled and say stop and people didn't stop. And so my body has translated that to communicate to me where my mental space isn't always in. If my body is tickled, it means no. Stamina in libido is very high. Please recommend hydration breaks. So um and then I end this with these are my boundaries, and you are responsible for your own boundaries. Keep any of your existing agreements, stay in integrity with yourself and the people you care about. Consent is sexy. Um, so that's my one pager that people get.
SPEAKER_03I love it. I love that so much. I'm glad you brought up free use. That's never really come up on the podcast, but I actually the first time I heard about free use was when I first started writing erotica. And there were some other erotica authors that I was kind of becoming networked with. I never met these people in person, but we, you know, were friends through Discord and whatever and Twitter. And but a few of them were writing free use erotica, and that was what introduced me to that there was a thing. And um, so this is super fun to find out that this is another playground that you've been exploring.
SPEAKER_00And yeah, I'm not sure there's a playground I haven't explored. There's a few. There's a few playgrounds I haven't explored. And there's a few that don't look at all appealing to me, but um obviously no pain. Um, I did explore pain at one point, but uh I don't like it. I'd be happy to give it to you. But I always have to warn people I'm a real asshole about it. So you're ready to meet the very bitch version of me.
SPEAKER_03Be sure that you want it because I will bring it.
SPEAKER_00That's right.
SPEAKER_03That's awesome.
SPEAKER_00What's what's the baddest? Oh, uh, let me just close that loop for a second. So that night that I went for use, um, my body count that night was eight people in one night. It was the biggest body count I've ever had. It was great fun. Mesh, what was the craziest thing you've done at one of those parties? God, I don't know.
SPEAKER_05I don't think I have anything that's like um going for use. Nothing too far off the beaten path. Yeah, I mean, I I use as a way to explore my liking for multiple partners. I think really the the crazy thing for me was when I first started going to these parties, was just getting used to the idea that there were so many ways sex could look like and so many different things were okay. And, you know, I could actually find stuff that I really enjoyed. Like that was the crazy revelation I got out of these parties. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I do have to say, these parties, much like Frolicon, are really open to different gender dynamics, different sexuality dynamics. Uh, it's a lot of fun. And the guest list is curated pretty nicely by the hosts. So um I would say if somebody's interested in throwing one of these parties and they would like to know more, they could reach out to you to get in touch with me, and I'm happy to walk them through that process because I've hosted some in my past as well.
SPEAKER_03That's cool. Um, well, so is there anything
Bucket List Fantasies
SPEAKER_03for either of you that's like on your fuck it list that is you haven't, yeah, you're like, yes, there is.
SPEAKER_00She's been trying to arrange for a while. For a while. I'm sure there are two things I've been trying to make happen for a while. One of them is uh two men DP. Um I've had a man and a toy, I've had a man and a woman with a toy, but I haven't had two men or two male presenting penis heavers. Um and uh um I would really like to experience that even better if it's three. Yeah, whatever I want it, um, which really leads into my next bucket list item, which is I would like to experience a uh gangbang situation. And uh that takes a considerable amount of coordination. And I have this thing in me that this is a new thing that I've not tried before, and it feels like a big ask. And so I get a little shy about the implementation and I'm working through that right now. You would think all the things I'm doing, I wouldn't get shy about things anymore, but I absolutely do. I get I get shy in the I might be too much spaces um that it might be asking too much or is might push people past their comfort zone, or people might say yes and not really mean it, or people might say yes and then discover it was a bad idea for them and I get a little cagey. Um, so um one of these days I'm gonna hand the reins over probably to Em and be like, all right, Em, make this happen. And she will coordinate the hell out of it and we will have a wonderful time.
SPEAKER_04And so awesome.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, those are my bucket list items that I've really been trying to make happen. And then the swinger party will probably be a another one that I get to experience.
SPEAKER_03I feel like the swinger community is gonna help you out there. Like I I because like I've I think it's been three different women that I've interviewed now that and I haven't published these episodes yet, but all three of those women had experienced multiple gangbangs before. And they did talk about the coordination part being more challenging that I mean, one of them said it's more challenging than you would think it would be to make that happen. But um, but yeah, it was I don't know, it was just interesting to me that all three of them had, you know, managed to pull it off. And it kind of made me think maybe the if you're looking for that, maybe the swinging community has got some experience just like as a amorphous, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there's there's a woman who is a sex worker who put together one for herself and I think she's got like an OnlyFans page or something, but she wrote up a whole thing about what she did and the steps she took and the data she collected because she she data data mined it essentially. Um and how the flu or flow uh flowed flowed and um and how that all worked. I um there are a couple of places I'm a little uncomfortable. Like I have a I really like to stay inside 10 years from my age because the minute you go younger than that, you end up closer to my oldest child's age, and the minute you go older than that, you end up closer to my father's age and both me out. So I've got some like age limitations and some uh some things that make it a little awkward for me. And I gotta work through those too. Um, or I gotta have whoever's helping me coordinate work through those with me. Maybe that's a career, maybe gangbang coordinator.
SPEAKER_03It should be my retirement plans. Would that not be the most incredible? I wouldn't it be interesting to find out how many people would come out of closets and be like, okay, look, if somebody wants one of those, I would be happy to coordinate it for you.
SPEAKER_00I guess KG about coordinating for myself, and maybe coordinating it for you would make it possible for me to coordinate it for me. It's a hell of a bachelorette party. Sure would be what's on your bucket list, Mesh? I don't actually think I know.
SPEAKER_05I mean, I don't know that I have any specific things on my bucket list. I'm in a space right now of like, how do I put it? I guess exploring, dropping into my body. Um, really feeling the sensations of being able to get out of my own head during sex. So one of the ways that I'm exploring or practicing that is through exploring CNC type things.
SPEAKER_03You know, it's can you tell people what that is?
SPEAKER_05Because sorry, a C and C is consensual non-consent. Um so it it takes a lot of forms. It's um telling your your husband that he can wake you up in the morning with his dick in you, right? It's I I can't think of lots of good examples, but it takes a lot of forms. For me, it's getting over the idea that you know women aren't aren't supposed to experience pleasure, aren't supposed to be sexual beings. And um what I've found is that a lot of that, like, this is gonna happen, you might as well enjoy it, just talk during activities I'd be doing anyway, really gets that little niggling corner of my mind to shut up and lets me be more present in the experience.
SPEAKER_00I already am in my body plenty. I need a pint of your blood. Yeah, I know. But that's for the blood transfusions, folks. She's not a vampire. Oh, yes, yes. Ongoing joke. Ongoing joke, inside joke. She's convinced that if we do a blood transfusion, she too could get into her body.
SPEAKER_05I can't think of any other way to give me her sexual sensitivity, right? Like I just I want to be able to just experience things the way she does for a day, forever, but also for a day.
SPEAKER_00You might, I mean, it's got its downfalls. I when you're as physically sensitive, no more spankings. Um and um, you know, there's a reduction in pain play, and there's um it can be awkward to live in my body.
SPEAKER_05Um the awkwardness, I can definitely see that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I'm just thinking about miss, you talking about CNC as a and I actually not heard this. I I definitely heard consensual non-consent, but like using that as a way to help you work through this like the sort of should of oh well, I shouldn't. And so if um you know, if the this is sort of being done for me. Because I definitely feel like in the interviews that I've done that it's like a recurring theme, that there are these forms of play, whatever it is. It CNC actually hasn't come up before, but just just different forms of play that are kind of alternative to, you know, whatever mainstream that have been powerful vehicles for, you know, getting uh working through some. And I think that's just really cool to me about play sexually and coloring outside the line, so to speak. That once you give yourself permission to do that, that it it like increases your tool set for doing like work on you know, these like tight knots inside your soul that are, you know, that yeah to come and wound.
SPEAKER_05It it definitely does. I mean, that's that's what got me into kink in the first place, was like I didn't uh I hadn't really embraced my centralist side. And you know, I was looking for something, I was looking for connection with my sex. And, you know, the the levels of intimacy between a Dom and a sub and the level of of trust that is there for some of the scenes that they do and just the communication, the understanding, right? Everything that goes into letting people play that way, you know, safely and well, was what really attracted me to the kink space. And I mean, I've I guess I've tried a lot of things at this point that people consider kinky. You know, I can't say most of them really work for me, other in and in the uh establishing connection sense or um allowing me to get out of my own head. You um can't not like it, you can't resist it, you might as well like it, right? Um something else I was thinking of. Oh god.
SPEAKER_00I I actually think one of my favorite terms that's been developing
Pleasure Tops and Bottoms
SPEAKER_00in the kink community is recently to me, it may be longer than I know of, but recently to me is this idea of a pleasure top and a pleasure bottom, where it's about pleasure and not about pain. And it's about, and it gets real fuzzy as to who's actually topping in those scenarios, by the way. Um, but G is definitely in the pleasure category. You know, he likes to please. Um and we like to be topped. So he's figuring out how to please in a topping way, and it becomes uh this sort of echo chamber of pleasure. I'm, you know, for me, it's like I'm doing what you want me to do because you want me to do it, and he's doing what he wants to me because I want him to do it, right? It's like this uh back and forth flow of pleasing one another. Um and it's still one of my favorite things when he finally just like sits back and lets lets myself or either of the others just please him, just pleasure him, and without him needing to pleasure us in return. Um kind of to tell him that's what you're about in that moment for him to let it go. But that's the it's a different aspect of BDSM kink world, I think, that people explore very often. Um, and given that I don't like pain, finding this language was very useful for me.
SPEAKER_03That's cool. I have never heard that before, but I love it because I am definitely wired that way, you know. Like I when I think about topping and I or dominance or whatever, the thing that lights me up is to think about okay, you're gonna give me control and how I'm going to use it as I'm going to see just how much pleasure. Yeah, I can like, and and that, yeah, I mean, that sounds like a lot of fun to me to so and I had not heard that that express so it's cool to me that that's become a thing. It's cool.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_05It's great too for you know, uh allowing yourself to receive pleasure for for because I know a lot of people have have issues with that. That's another thing. My brain is always talking about, like, oh that that feels amazing. I should be doing something in return, you know. Um so learning to to give and take at different times is a big thing. Um, I know that in a lot of the BDSM community, the the term pleasure top or pleasure dom has become a little bit problematic, like these things tend to do, just because it's, you know, a lot of people want to say that's them and it's supposed to be, you know, to lure in the newbies who are afraid of pain or you know, something like that. But you know, regardless of the misuses, the term is a is a great one.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, if you're uh you know, PSA, if you're entering into the kink world and you're starting to look at, you know, what might might be interesting to me and exploring different things, pay attention to how to tell when a top is a good top. And if you're gonna top, you should probably experience submitting once, at least once, because you need to know what it feels like to let go of the control so you understand how much responsibility you have in the position of a top. Uh, it's good to have a mentor, it's good to have on both sides of the coin, topping and bottoming. It's good to have somebody who has been in the world for a while and can identify healthy exchanges. Uh, they sent me this thing. Is this normal?
SPEAKER_05Like that's start out. Even if you don't have access, even if you don't have access to somebody, you know, who's more experienced than anything like that, you know, just like in polyamory, word of mouth is really powerful. I mean, even if you're talking to people that you don't know, the referral system is gonna be a big safety check and a and a great way to find a good time.
SPEAKER_03These are very good tips. Well, you guys are a lot of fun. Um that's what we're tips. We are thank y'all so much for coming and like giving a window into uh my my first multiple guest episode. And uh y'all just really y'all set the standard. Not that there's a standard.
SPEAKER_00We got the ball rolling well.
SPEAKER_03But you definitely picked it up. So I'll I'm hoping I'll have to find ways to do more of these.
SPEAKER_05These are super fun, like kind of a little mini panel of uh that's kind of what I was picturing um when Ronnie was put in the idea of doing this at Frollicon is like you know, you get one of the smaller rooms and you've got a dozen different people in there who just want to talk about their experiences with whatever topic you want to throw out there, you know, and you get a real a gamut of experiences. And oh, and I was thinking too, we used the term metamore, but I think that was the one we didn't actually define.
SPEAKER_03So thank you. Yes.
SPEAKER_00Metamore, metamore is the lover of my lover. Um, polymore would be the what's that right? Paramore, paramore would be my lover, right? Uh metamore is the lover of my lover. Pedamore is the animal of my lover. So you know if your partner has a dog. Um and children of polyamorous people are called polywogs.
SPEAKER_03Oh that's I did not know that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they're um it's a tadpole, essentially. We made that up though, didn't we make that up? No, no, that one's out out in the world. It's polywog. Um and then my father immediately went, Well, what is the parent of a polyamorous person called? And I'm like, I don't know, dad. So we're looking for a term for parents people.
SPEAKER_03A
Resources To Check Out
SPEAKER_03whole glossary of um erroneous meshes.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, a couple um book references. One, if you're worried about doing poly with children, having children, our G and M have two children, they are four and five, and then I have two children that are 29 and 14. So we're, you know, past most of the worry from their perspective. And most of our partners have some children at the sudden stage in their development. The there's a researcher out of George, she was out of Georgia, she might be in a different state now, but her name is Elizabeth Chef, Elizabeth with an S instead of a Z. And Chef is S-C-H-E-F-F. And you can look up her research. She did extensive research on the impact of polyamory on children. Um, that can be a really good place to start. And then there's like a gazillion book references out there. Um, let's see, my favorite still is more than two, but it comes with some complications. It was co-written by a couple, and the gentleman in that couple was practicing some non-ethical things in his polyamorous relationships, and that has come out since it was written. That said, the book is still really good and has a lot of valid information in it, and it was pivotal in shifting some of the dynamics that I have had in poly. So I do recommend it still. I just also recommend you look up Eve's, Eve is the other author, Eve's blog post about their relationship to go with it so you can you can find those grains of salt. What's your favorite book, Mish?
SPEAKER_05Some recommendations too, both about sexuality and you know, as it can help through help with your polyamory. Um, there's a researcher, Emily Nagoski. She wrote uh the first one was Come as You Are. Um, and then she's most recent one is Come Together. And reading those books was really eye-opening, again, on the topic of your sexuality is okay. And get she gives really great ways to understand it and and understand why you might react differently from somebody else. And you know, she has this concept of of breaks and accelerators and this this sexual garden. And um, I would really recommend those books. And the second one is is the rooms theory that Aranya was talking about before.
SPEAKER_00Yes, in the room of me. What's going on with sex room? And also, where is it in your house? Is it hidden in the basement? Is it centralized? Is it off in a back corner? Is it on the third floor? Um, can also give you some insight. The sex room in my house is main front and center. It's the biggest room in the house. So because it's my favorite thing to do.
SPEAKER_03Right? Yay. Yeah. So rooms, so is this like, did you find this theory? Is this like a certain author, a book that this is in?
SPEAKER_00This is Emily Nagoski. Yeah, I was from Thomas. Though I was talking about it with my therapist before I knew about Emily Dagoski's theory. So I was like, you know, rebuilding the house of me and I'm working on the sex room now. And my therapist was like, Oh, that's great. So before I knew about that, I had emerged on that as an idea as well. Uh, it it works really well with the family systems. Internal family systems is another, um, it's a therapeutic model for understanding basically all the different voices in your head and what they're trying to tell you and how to work with them. I talk often about having an Alfred. Alfred is my the butler that lets people into my emotional center. His first job is are they generally safe? Are they going to cause me any physical harm or put me in serious danger? Um those people get shut down pretty fast. And then the second check is are they emotionally safe? And uh, you know, I've I have a partner I'm still working that out with for myself. Um, and uh, are they emotionally safe is the second check. Alfred's whole job is to be pragmatic and to make sure that the executive function is still functioning and to make sure I don't get hurt. That's his job. And I'm pretty sure it doesn't have a name yet, but there's also an internal voice in my head that protects me from myself, the voice that says, Oh, you're being too much right now, or the voice that says he doesn't want you, or the voice that says, this will never make it, that little inner brain goblin. I have an inner, an inner voice that fights that goblin too. But um, you know, it's like an Alfred is my external barrier for safety. And whatever that that one is gonna get named, um, she's my internal, she's like developing this year. So um, she's my internal barrier to self-harm, essentially.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, thank you for sharing that. Um I'm just thinking about the first time I heard you present, it was in like a professional setting. And you're I mean, of course, everybody listening to this can tell how articulate you are, but you uh in the long time that I've known you, I mean, the experiences I've had with just talking to you, you know, you you you are so good at taking things that are very intimate and deep, you know, psychological ideas and making them not sound really academic and actually be accessible and relatable and yet really rich and juicy and deep, you know. And so it's like just the way you were just saying that. I was like, damn, girl. Thank you so much for winning bringing your magical polyamorous metamorph. I don't know, is that a word? I just made it up.
SPEAKER_05I like it.
SPEAKER_03I like it.
SPEAKER_05This has been really fun. And I've I've been looking forward to it since I I read the uh synopsis of of what your podcast was about uh for the first time a couple months ago. I was like, okay, this is gonna be good.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. I appreciate you having us both on.
SPEAKER_03Oh my god, this is been this has been so cool. I'm really glad it worked out that we could do this. I feel like we're gonna need like a follow-up episode once you coordinate your gangbang and you know, maybe deal. We're gonna need the retro.
SPEAKER_00When the bucket list items happen, I'll let you know.
Marvin aka Morgan HaleAll right, well, that's a wrap, y'all. Thanks for listening to Filthy Little Secrets. I hope we left you feeling light, free, and inspired to explore your filthy sexual horizons. If you want more, subscribe to get all the filthy feature funny. If you're a sex positive woman and like to learn another promotion, I want to talk to you. Wanna come on the channel and tell your story? Head at Morganhalebook.com slash to learn more.