Filthy Little Secrets
A show where women get real about sex.
To praise pleasure.
And bless boldness.
One candid conversation at a time.
Join us for this heart to heart chat about something most of us think about, dream about, and even yearn for, but few of us feel comfortable admitting it, talking about it, or celebrating it.
Let's get filthy together.
Learn more at https://filthylittlesecrets.com/
Filthy Little Secrets
Breaking the Box: The Art of Being Unapologetically Alive with Amanda
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In this powerful episode, host Marvin sits down with Amanda to explore the liberating journey of embracing sexuality and authenticity. Drawing from her own pivotal experiences, Amanda challenges the double standards society places on women—expected to be sexy yet discouraged from being sexual.
Together, they dive into what it means to feel truly safe while exploring desires, the surprising role that romantic and spicy books can play in helping women connect with their sexuality, and how letting go of shame opens the door to living more fully, freely, and unapologetically.
This candid conversation is a celebration of self-discovery, pleasure, and the boldness it takes to reclaim your wild, authentic self—showing how sexual energy can unlock not only passion but also deeper connections and personal growth.
Welcome to Filthy Little Secrets, the show where real everyday women get real about sex. We're here to shatter stigma and trample taboo one candid conversation at a time. My name's Marvin, but my readers know me as Morgan Hale, filthy romance author. And I'm your host for this heart-to-heart chat about something most of us think about, dream about, and even yearn for. But few of us feel comfortable admitting it, talking about it, or celebrating it. So let's get filthy together.
Introducing Amanda
SPEAKER_03Hey everybody. Tonight we get to talk with a friend of mine. This is someone that I met through our mutual friend Kyra Casey. We were on a retreat together. And while I was at this retreat with her, she looked me in the eye and was like, you need to write this book. And for me, it was It was like a divine encounter. I've a few times in my life that someone has looked me in the eyes, and it was a experience of thing more than just the physical. And the way you looked at me that day was a brand. I mean, it just absolutely pinned me to a wall energetically in such a good way. And it got me writing again, which was awesome. So all of you that are looking forward to my next book, you can thank Amanda because she was the loving kick in the pants that I needed. And yeah, I just I really feel a kinship with you, and I'm grateful that you were open to coming and talking about sexuality and opening yourself up a little bit to talk about it. So thank you for coming on the show.
SPEAKER_00Well, thank you for having me. I appreciate it. And I'm glad that you're writing. And
Sex Sells, But Don't Talk About It
SPEAKER_00you know, living in the United States, there's like such this weird dichotomy, you know, that we use sex to sell everything, but oh my god, don't talk about it. Except we're all here because of sexual.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_00It's like I don't I have not yet met any test tube babies, but you know, we're all here because sex. And, you know, there, I think just like with anything in the world, there are high vibe ways to interact with something and low vibe, dark, kind of shadowy ways to interact with it. And it doesn't necessarily have to be wrong or right. It's just looking at who do you want to be inside of that and how do you want to experience it. And I think it's it has been a disservice the way we interact with sex. You know, we've got a lot of that Puritan carryover, you know, that's kind of woven into the fabric of our society, which is like this weird Puritan thing. But here, let's have boobs on the beer commercial, but don't talk about it. It it makes it challenging, you know, it's like it's all around, but don't do it. If you do it, it's bad. And if you do it too soon, it's bad. And and it really creates a I don't know, it just it creates a really challenging, sticky situation for people trying to navigate like who am I with all of this? So I, you know, I'm I'm happy, I'm happy to be here.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, well, thank you. Yeah, it is very interesting. And I do, I mean, I don't know if you would agree with this, but it does seem like uh we do it disproportionately to women where the message is be sexy, but don't be sexual. You know, it's like be appealing, but please don't feel it and enjoy it. We don't give you that permission as a society. And if you do, do it privately, but for sure don't do it in the public eye. It's uh it's a weird.
Essence over Appearance
SPEAKER_00I think it's a very superficial way, it's a very tiny little box of what being sexual is. So it when you were talking, it it made me think of a a workshop that I did. Oh god, probably 20 years ago. It's like time is so weird right now. But it was a belly dance workshop and it was like the Saturday night or whatever, and there were performances, and there was a woman who got up to perform. Now, this woman was of the size in which she walked, like her body kind of like tilted. When she did, you know, the dance moves, there were just a lot of things she could not physically do, you know, in the belly dance. But let me tell you, when she got up to perform, the handful of moves that she had, she worked them, she felt herself. She got on that dance floor and the music came on. And when she was done, all of us were like, Did we just turn? I don't like holy crap. It was the most sensual, beautiful sexual, but it was sexual without it being raunchy, you know what I mean? But it was just like we all were like, I think the temperature just went up like 15 degrees in this room. Like, I don't know what happened. And I feel like when you talk about sexuality, again, looking at society and how like most of us are shown, it's boobs up and out and tiny waist and tiny little thing, you know, tiny little shorts, and you have to have long hair and all of its appearance, it's not essence. And I have read stories like Mae West, she was in her freaking eighties and had herself a stable of hot young men, and they they were lining up like this woman was geriatric, right? And still had men showing up. And so when we talk about what it is to be sexy, it's like this two-dimensional thing. Yes, we all have bodies, and yes, there are bodies that are more visually appealing, but that's just the beginning of it. That there's so much more, it's it's this, it's the zest for life. It's the being able to show up, not self-consciously. It's being able to do your one or two dance moves, and you can't even like undulate your hips, but I can do things with my arms that make you melt, right? Like I'm owning it. It's it's a distinction between, yeah, between like Playboy or penthouse versus the real flesh and blood, rich, goddessy kind of energy. And you know, or or in the same thing with the masculine, you know, it's like, oh, you know, big pecs and uh you know what I mean, versus a man who can show up and see you, like a man who can penetrate your soul before he penetrates your body. And like because if a man can penetrate you and your essence, like I have yet to meet a woman who doesn't have like that guy who shows up and he's like, I've got it, I've got you, I see you, I'm gonna do things for you, not because you ask or beg me, but because I am offering it, that it's not like, oh, well, then you can penetrate me too, honey. Like it's it's so much deeper than just you know, just rubbing one out.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. Well, so
Younger Amanda: Waiting While Wanting
SPEAKER_03when when did you first discover your sexuality? Like what experiences that you were like, oh, this is what this is this part of me, this is what this feels like, this is what this looks like, this is how it manifests. Do you have like a memory or a story of like when this that first encounter for you, what that looked like?
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's a good question. So not a lot. So when I was younger, you know, I had you know different opportunities, and I always kind of put them off because I was like, you're not it. Like there's there's a lot of ways that I was very practical. Like I knew that, you know, I mean, I have a degree in biology, but like I knew that there's only one surefire way to not get pregnant, and I wasn't ready for that. And there was, I think, a soul knowing before I started reading, there is an energetic exchange, it's not just two bodies meshing together, there's there's energy involved, right? Um, I think I at a soul level knew that. And there were people that I was just like, you're cute, but not you.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, energy is not for me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And and it's wild because when I was young, I was like, ooh, I know I want to do that. You know, yes, there is like there is something deeper, but also we have bodies, right? You know, you have urges and and you go through puberty and things wake up. And it was like, uh, like, yeah, I want to do that. And but not with you. And so I really, really did continue to put things off. And what's wild, this was the probably one of the few things that had me go, oh, maybe there are past lives. Maybe we do have additional lives, because I remember, and it's still so clear to me this day. I had this dream. And I in my and this was before I ever had physically had sex and had sex with somebody in my dream. And you know, there were there were several dreams, but like uh, I was like, I knew what it felt like, like in my dream, like it was like very it was like, oh yeah, we're we're we'll be doing that. But it was um so and I'm like, how how would I know that?
SPEAKER_03Right when you've experienced it, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Experienced it. And and so, you know, really it was like it was with my husband, you know, that was finally like, okay, we're connected. So I will, you know, I was no, I was really careful with my energy in college, you know, there were a couple times that guys were like, Oh, and I'm like, eh, and they were like, Oh, okay, like respected it, yeah. Yeah, and I don't, and I think a lot of it was because of the kind of the energetic wall that I had, because I'm like, I ain't putting up with it and I will beat your ass. Um but that was but it came, it stemmed from me not feeling like I had any autonomy over my body growing up because my father was physically and emotionally abusive. And I'm like healed from all of that, like I'm good with that. But for me, that was very much a I'm gonna choose, you know, and kind of like the the pretty woman thing. It's like I say who, I say when, you know, it's like I'm not going to open myself up. Yeah. Yeah. So for me, it was, you know, like when I realized that, okay, you and I are gonna be connected. And and there were things that my husband did that just touched me. Like, this is silly, but it was the way he drove. Like he was considerate. I'm like, you know, that and I feel safe with you.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_00And that was, I think that was a big thing. And you know, and I'm grateful for the upbringing that I had at this stage of my life because it made me very cognizant of I will not be with somebody unless I feel completely safe in all ways with them. And and I was really adamant about that. And I think it was because I had that whole experience of like I never felt safe at home. And I wasn't that was not going to be the case going forward.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah. That was not what you wanted to create in your future. Yeah, yeah.
Feeling Safe and Sexual with Dangerous Men
SPEAKER_03Do you know uh Juliet Carolyn? Yeah. She talks about the safety, the how important that is for a woman to open that sexual door. That the safety is a really key ingredient. So so let me ask you this, because I know that you're also a is bookworm, is that a fair word to say? You love readings?
SPEAKER_00Yes, I'm a bookworm, a book dragon. Like I hoard them. I guess. Book nerfed very much so.
SPEAKER_03Well, so this is um, I'm wondering if you can unpack this for me that safety creates this door for a woman's sexuality for her to like come out and play. But the types of books that women seemed to be drawn to that I mean, some of the books that did really well were these male characters who were kind of dangerous characters, you know, they were maybe violent in some kind of way or outlaws in some kind of way or whatever. Are you okay? I've got things to say about that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Please tell me what are your thoughts about that? Well, I think it's really primal. Um, a man who's dangerous can protect you, right? A man who's not dangerous. Actually, I think Jordan Peterson says this a man who is not dangerous is not necessarily peaceful, he's just a weak man. You know, a weak man doesn't provide safety. A dangerous man, a man who could overpower you, but chooses not to. Like there, there's something really juicy about that because there's there's this idea of like, yeah, you you could burn the world down for me if necessary. I'm safe with you because you you protect me from the world. And and so, which then makes it a really real challenge. And this is where you see a lot of the romance books that are written by women, because we can kind of see there's a nuance there of that dangerous man, that man who who could pin you down, um, but who's also in tune with you enough to know when it's too much, don't to know when to let go, to know just how far to push you in the bedroom or or in in life, right? Because sometimes there are, I mean, there are men and women who both do, but we're we're talking specifically about women. You know, there are women that are afraid to do certain things or like, oh, I can't do that. And having a man who can see you and know how far to push to go, yes, you can. I have faith in you, I see you, I see, I'm here for you. I've got your back, I've got it handled. When you drop it, I'm here to catch it. There, there's something, there is safety there. There's a you're capable, you know, and and then to have a man who also steps in. So a lot of, you know, that dangerous man, you know, he's like gonna come and like pin you down or, you know, pull you away, you know, the oh gosh, what was that one? It was turned into a movie, the shades of gray. But the idea of that, it's relinquishing control because there are so many areas in our life as women that we carry so much of the mental load, we carry so much of the planning and the organizing and the making sure everybody's fed and making sure that this is taken care of. And then whatever job or work that you have, it gets to be a lot. And so when a man comes in and goes, No, I'm gonna take that and I'm gonna take away any excuse you have to actually be here and receive pleasure, to receive me, you know, and whatever there, there's something really, really sexy about it. Like those books have been around. Yeah. I know my mom used to read the pirate books where the the damsel and if she gets stolen away and she's on his ship, and then before you know it, like he's got her bent 15 ways to Sunday. And she's oh, she's like liberated, you know, because I think there are so many societal stories, like you were saying, that it's like, well, we want you to look sexy, but don't actually be sexy. We don't don't be sexual, don't own it. And those stories allow women to kind of experience, oh, I can let that go. I can be taken by someone who sees me, by someone who sees what buttons to push and who can kind of allow
A Woman's Wild Side
SPEAKER_00me to step into that wild version of myself because I do think that part of being feminine is being wild when we talk about things that are feminine, the moon, mother nature.
SPEAKER_03Oh my god, I love that you're going here. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That you know, it's it's feminine, chaos is connected to the feminine. Those are wild. There's like it's thunderstorms, it's floods, it's you know, the moon shows up and tides go wonky. And and so people have it that women are they should be like this prim proper. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. There is a wild ferleness to women, and we try to button it up because it's not a good look. And I'm like, who said? Right. And honestly, I think a big part of it came about because that's the way that's how you control, like that's how you keep something that you think is yours by controlling it. And it's a really bad way to go about it, I think. But I think when women are allowed to tap into their wildness, one, it's dangerous because now you you can't control a wild creature, right? Yeah, you you just kind of have to like go with it and you've got to really pay attention to it. If you've got a wild animal, if you want that wild animal to like let you touch it, you you've got to like be really in tune. You've got work to do on yourself, you can't show up all kinds of angry and judgy. And you know, you've got to be patient and rounded, and there's a level of work that's required on on the part of the man in this situation. And I think a lot of men are they have their own stuff, you know, they're tapped out over here, and it's like, I just can't you just come and like do me? And it's like and there, and it yes, but there's there's so much that gets missed. And so I think that like our natural, I think the feminine is naturally a little wild and feral, and and the more we try to crank that down, either it comes out sideways or women get really small.
SPEAKER_03Oh my god, that was so amazing! So I'll tell you why I love this because I also know that you are someone who loves the earth and the dirt and the growing things, and in you and I've had this conversation a little bit around the name of the podcast being filthy little secrets, and that has been something that has been deepening for me over time. But one of the things ways in which it has is exactly what you're saying. This past weekend I was hanging out with a friend. We're talking about sexuality, and I was like, Come sit in the grass with me. And we went and we sat in the grass, and I put my hands in the grass, and I was like, look around us at how sexual the earth is. And she looked around and she was like, Oh my god, I love looking at the world through this lens. Everywhere you look, there's life springing up, there's flowers that are opening, there's pollination happening everywhere. It is such a sexual universe. And I have kind of come to think of the earth as an expression of the divine feminine, and it's exactly what you said. There's all of this wild taking place all around us all the time. And it is sacred. It's like what happens when there's a divine masculine that can just hold space for that and witness it and not try to diminish it and not try to shame it and not need to control it. That to me is my dream. Actually, what this podcast for me is in the writing and everything is like I want to bring that to the table because I do believe that wild that you're talking about is I think the answer. Yeah, I really do. I think that's the answer. I think that all life comes from it, not just children, but everything I think comes from it. And so and I don't really know what the unfolding of that will look like, but I just want to be like whatever part I get to play and what I'm bringing to the world around me. That's that's what I hope for my life to be. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00I think that's beautiful, you know, to be able to be in a state of of like being a safe observer with, like you said, without trying to control it. Because you know, I you kind of does it again using that the imagery of the earth, you know, we think that we can control and dominate, right? You know, because we put down concrete and you know, put up buildings and and roads and and divert streams and rivers, and I'm like, yes, you can. And if you leave a road alone or a parking lot, we have six inches of concrete within a year, plants are coming up through it. You know, there there is a or you do enough and you get like massive floods. Um, it's like, oh yeah, watch this. And and so it's the idea of or a tornado, you know, like it's like, oh, your puny little cars and airplanes and buildings, let me just smash those all up to pieces. And allowing for a woman to be messy and you know, it's not even just the wild, but just to be to experiment and to be messy and to just like tap into that essence of freedom and joy and and the wild and to play, because I think that's where creation also stems from, all those areas. And
Sex in Marriage
SPEAKER_00I, you know, it's interesting because you know, we we've been married for 32 years now. And it's been close to 10, maybe not quite 10, eight or nine, that our marriage completely shifted, you know, because we got married, I was 20, he was 22. And you come in with expectations, and you know, there are a lot of things that you don't talk about. And personally, I believe if you can't talk about sex, you probably ought not to be engaging in it. Because if you can't have a conversation about it, like honestly, that might indicate that you're not actually ready for it. Um there were just things that we didn't discuss about our lives in general, and he was on this pedestal, like he was my white knight. And when he fell off the pedestal, he fell off hard. And then we had kids and it things shifted. And I instead of me being able to say what I needed in all areas, you know, because I I didn't have therapy or training and all of that until we, you know, got into my 30s, I got quiet, I got small and I got resentful and I got bitter and I closed myself off to him and in a lot of ways. And it wasn't until we had been doing therapy and we went to a program, you know, that really looked at like what it is to be human and deal with all of the stuff and to a place where I was like, I'm done. And I quit trying to be who I thought he wanted me to be. You know, we we bring stuff in from our families. And so I would do he'd be like, that's embarrassing. And then I would be like, oh, I will be small and I don't want to embarrass you. And now I feel ashamed and and we and so I I got to where I would open up around other people but not around him. And it wasn't until I was like I'm done. You can be the bad guy and drop me like a hot potato and I'm going to quit trying to hide. And when I actually showed up and was like me, you could have knocked me over with a feather when he was like, I've never seen that side of you. I really like it.
SPEAKER_04And I was like what?
SPEAKER_00I've been hiding because I had stories about what he meant by all of this. Like I wasn't acceptable as I was and so I would shrink. And of course that showed up in the bedroom because when you're small and you're you're shrinking it's it's hard to open up and play and actually love it. And the fact that I wasn't loving it was breaking my heart because I'm like I waited all that time and now fun. And now it and now it gets to be fun. Now it gets to be play and like well let's try this and you know there's a difference because now I know he's not trying to squash me or make me fit into a little box. And maybe 22 year old him wanted me to fit into a box because he didn't know what to do with somebody who didn't but we both have grown and I think that's one of the things that's possible you know long-term relationship is that that you get to grow with somebody who actually gives a crap about you.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I love it. So now he's in this place where he's holding space for you much better you're like starting to feel I mean you have that obviously I guess for 10 years now that you've been like here comes a man and I'm still learning it you know I think it's it's not like a one and done thing.
SPEAKER_00You know like it's like any kind of healing. It's usually not linear. Right and yeah yeah and and getting to the space of saying hey here's some things I like or here's some of the things that I read that really excite me. I don't actually want to do that though but like how can we play with that to bring to bring that vibe to bring that essence in between us and you know there's there's all kinds of things that you that you can use books for right like it's I I've seen things where people you know like have the their men read certain chapters you know or like read this and then surprise me or then going oh okay what does it look like to reenact something you know to bring some of this in and yeah I think if you're lucky sex and sexuality and your own sensuality gets to be a lifelong exploration. Like it's my intent. So like I'm just gonna be up front like we're both in our 50s now just so weird to me because I don't feel like I am but like no your energy is very uh yeah yeah I'm I'm gonna I'm channeling my own you know May West Betty White yeah
Juicy After Menopause
SPEAKER_00but it's my intent that we have the next 50 years to work and grow and get and get hotter like I I mean I'm I've done the menopause thing and and it's actually gotten better. You know like there's this idea of like when women hit menopause they dry up well if you quit using it right off and you go oh well I'm just this dried up old woman then that's what you're gonna be but if you're gonna be in the world of like no just because I'm no longer planting seeds doesn't mean there's not plenty of juicy harvest to be had you know there's there are nursing homes because apparently there's like high incidence of STDs in nursing homes because they're like I got nothing else to do you know don't have a job I don't have to about getting pregnant you know there you can still enjoy yourself. It's not you're probably not gonna be as vigorous and as acrobatic as you were in your younger years if you ever were it may not be as frequent but it still gets to be a thing. And so it's it's my intent that as long as I'm alive I'm gonna be alive and I'm gonna enjoy I think that sex is a gift and regardless of what you believe about you know God or whatever God looks like I think that sex is a gift because the way humans are designed I mean we could have been like starfish where you just like break a piece off and grow a new part you know like there's so many ways to reproduce in the world right in nature and we get the one where you you have sex in order to create new life. I think it's a gift and I you know I want to keep enjoying it as long as I can yeah I love it.
SPEAKER_03I love it. I mean I'm also in the 50s and I have the same like mission personally for myself of just I want to live as fully with my feet planted in the grass and you know I'm here and everything can be my life and experience. I want to have that and do that and be that and especially when it comes to sexuality because I also believe it's a gift and it's something that I feel like as a society as a race or as a species we're still just cracking the surface of what is even possible. Like I know you have studied Kimonami's work which you were the second person I'd ever heard of her from and I'd only just heard of her through this podcast from another guest who told me about her and like I guess started reading about what she teaches there's people like her that are unlocking mysteries of what the body is capable of sexually that this might have been known and understood at some point in human history but it was definitely lost in terms of the mass populace right and so you know to me it's what are the frontiers that are still to be discovered in terms of what's possible in intimacy and in sexual experience.
SPEAKER_00When did you start digging into her stuff and what did you get out of it and yeah so oh gosh probably six or seven years ago I started seeing her stuff like her vaginal kung fu she talks about like really strengthening and not just being tight because you think about any other muscle in your body if it's tight all of the time that's not a healthy muscle you know but like being supple and being able to actually use that. And so I I had done one of her salons and uh was it it wasn't last year. It was two years ago that I did her oh my gosh totally blanking out on the name oh it was called the well fucked woman. I love it. Yeah and her philosophy is that you can be well fucked even if you're single you know it's about actually tapping into your own sexuality and she's like and clearly she's older I think she's older than I am I think she's in her 60s and she still looks frickin' hot. I mean she's slim and strong and you know she's still getting around and but it's the idea that you can be older and it still gets to be it still gets to be juicy. And it's been a few years since I went through menopause and like I just knew in my soul it was like look I don't believe that idea that once you go through that now you're like old and dried up. I think that's ridiculous. And first stuff started coming through and I was like well let me try that and one of the things so I was a pure romance consultant for a while. Oh okay I didn't know this. Like why the heck not it was like it was very very very part-time it was I was not one of those gung ho but but I you know I I don't know for a couple of years and one of the things that they you know of course they sold it but they really pushed was that like oh you know women need lube women you know because it just and Kemonami's over here going no you don't and in fact it's harmful because you don't like you you what you're doing is you're bypassing your body you're abandoning what your body is saying. So rather than trying to rush it because you know of course the idea is like oh if you have lube then you can rather than waiting 20 to 40 minutes plus to have foreplay and to warm up you know to get everything warmed up just slap some lube on it and he can slide right in. And it's like you're bypassing all of a woman's pleasure because she's not warmed up. She hasn't had time to soften she hasn't had time to kind of like get out of her head and get into her body and Kimonami's like quit that you know like it's one, it's your job as a woman to know what it is that that stimulates you that makes you know that's like ooh does this feel good does that feel good it's your job as a woman to ask for what you want. It's your job as a woman to not rush through it because you are shortchanging yourself because you
All The Female Orgasms
SPEAKER_00were actually designed to have a clitoral orgasm, to have a G spot orgasm, to have a cervical orgasm, to have a throat orgasm, to have an orgasm through nipple stimulation you know like you're you're just you are a pleasure playground your body is and if you're rushing through it, you're kind of abandoning yourself in a way. And so she doesn't just talk about the physical she talks about you need to have communication you need to share where are you shut down there are if there are things you need to work through you need to work through them. You can't just like bypass it and like oh yeah I had these things happen but okay I'm gonna show up and you're all tight and all right let's let's just do this like no
Creating A Turned On Life
SPEAKER_00and also when you're in a state of pleasure and tuned in and turned on by your body and by your life you have opportunities that would come to you that wouldn't come otherwise you know like it's the difference between somebody who could be a perfect 10 physically but who is cold and and closed off and you're gonna have somebody who's maybe a three but she's feeling herself like she knows that she is a divine portal. Like I'm tapped into the universe I am turned on by myself I am turned on by life I'm turned on when there's like a freaking amazing sunset and I'm just like over like huge difference. You know which one of them is going to like really enjoy life and which one of them is going to have people coming and knocking on their door and going hey I want to work with you. I want to pay you money to come and be the face of my thing like this girl's really pretty but like me right yeah the magnets yeah yeah so like that's in in a big nutshell kind of like what I got from working with Kim is that that you get to be juicy and turned on by light all the way up to the end.
SPEAKER_03I love it. I love it so much. And as you're talking about that I feel like that is probably on the energetic level what I experienced being around you at the edge. Like you had this embodied I'm here to live life fully and in all the ways turned on in my whether it's my business or my relationship in myself you just emanated that so when you were like you need to write you had this authority to speak to me in that moment because it was embodied and I feel like Kyra does that too unapologetically that wild that you were talking about you know that's just she's fully embracing that in herself and expressing it and yeah I don't want to speak to that just really quickly because it's interesting.
SPEAKER_00Yeah I I saw that in Kyra when I first met her and I feel like she's got it a little more on lock but part of that is because of the work right and it I don't want to sit here and say that like oh I'm always turned on by life. No, I have days where I'm just like I'm gonna sit on the couch and it's like and I and I'm not it's like I'm not connected. It's like almost like I'm disassociated from that energy from that and and it takes a conscious intention to plug in like it it doesn't just it's not like you wake up and you go oh I'm just like so turned on by life. I just love it. It's great like it's an intentional practice. It's an intentional practice with like being turned on in your body it's an intentional practice and being turned on in your life and sometimes you have to crawl out of that hole you know it's like muddy and you're slipping and you're just like I'm gonna I'm gonna get out of this because I feel like shit here and I don't want to and and I don't want people who do listen to think oh well she's so lucky you know she and this chiro girl another woo woo. No it's a choice and and it's one I think you have to make every day. And I think it's the same thing with so many other things in life and that's why I don't know if you've ever heard the term how you do one thing is how you do all things. I have heard that yeah I think it's it's probably more like how you do most things but but still it's kind of how you you do that. And if if you abdicate your power and responsibility in most areas of your life in your happiness in your joy in your communication in your work in how you choose to show up in your sexuality then how do you expect to have fulfillment in any of those areas like it it's a continual choice and it's you know you know I mentioned like between my husband and I, it's still a continual choice, you know, am I going to show up and play or am I going to be pissed at him because he snapped at me and I thought he was rude and he didn't apologize adequately and I don't feel like he really saw me. So like fuck him he doesn't get the fun me like right or can I go oh that's not who I want to be that's not the life I want can I forget him and go to him and say and open my heart say hey I'm really struggling open up because I'm feeling resentful can you can we work through this or you know we we have another mutual friend who brought up something she's like or can we can we just fuck it out you know like yeah yeah like sometimes the physical is the entryway to the spiritual and sometimes the spiritual is the entryway to the physical and and I think it's really important to realize that in life there really is you get out of it what you put into it. And you know we're talking about the earth and growing things you cannot expect to have a bountiful harvest if you've planted two seeds and barely water it you know like you just can't and so you have to if you want more you have to show up more and you have to choose it even on the days and sometimes especially on the days that you feel the worst about yourself you know and it really does come back to like can I love me? Can I love me in all of my shadow? Can I love all of my demons? Can I love the most self-centered petty mean nasty parts of myself as well as the shiny lit up kind of parts right and I think it's a practice and in your sexuality is the overflow from all of that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah yeah yeah and that's interesting because that that for me has been something that is kind of new in my just in my spiritual path and
Working Through Sexual Shame
SPEAKER_03it's like when a thought feeling comes up that is you know the old program of I mean maybe it's shame you know and I feel ashamed because I have these sexual thoughts and feelings. I mean that would be one for me. But if it's possible to like witness whatever it is whether it's you know jealousy or uh shame or any of that notice it and witness it and give love to it. You know be compassionate with it and then in that process unearth the rock or whatever it is in my garden so that I can make it healthier and release it. But I don't release it by like resisting it and rejecting it and trying to stuff it down deeper in the ground you know that doesn't work and I did it for years. But now I'm more doing I think what you were saying which is be present to all of it and find a way to be compassionate with it. And then out of that I love this garden analogy that the flowers start blooming and it's like it's all of that embodied to truly have vibration. For me I think it's finally happening because it's coming out of being willing to be present to the dark stuff. And to not try to I'm you know there's this term spiritual bypassing like not really trying to bypass it but actually walk through it and see it as part of the journey and the experience of life. Because it's something that we all have in common you know like I think it's most of us do on some level have those painful things and if it's possible for us to become present to it and to really understand it and have compassion on it within ourselves then it becomes I think easier to connect and relate to others who are also going through it and then the richness becomes more possible.
SPEAKER_00But yeah I think just one more thing is that as you were talking and you were talking about the things that you know thoughts and things that you've had that you know you were ashamed about and like I said and most of us probably have because you know you're little and and you're told oh don't do that or don't touch that or good girls don't nasty girls do you know like you have these stories that start getting embedded and then we have certain social mores that are accepted nobody actually looks at them as to why you know is that is that the truth and and then things are wrapped up inside of religion which I think religion and spirituality are very different. And there are some books that I've read over the years that I was like hmm one of my favorites which was probably one that caused the big tipping point for me to have kind of this whole crisis of faith was called When God was a woman. And it talks about like pre-Christianity and you know how the pendulum kind of has a tendency to go swing, swing and let's hang out in the middle what that's a nicer place to be. But it's this idea of instead of owning our desires and what it is that we want doesn't mean you need to act on all of them, but to own it and not make it wrong and to communicate right with your partner or partners and to step outside of shame it really it takes a lot of inner work. It takes a lot of going oh okay well why do I like this? And personally I believe a lot of the things that we do find arousing starts getting imprinted when we're really young. You know not that children are we shouldn't be sexual with children. I I will absolutely say that's bad and wrong but there are things that we start getting imprinted and young you start building on that. And some people are mistreated and that absolutely does color what is desirable for them. And instead of making it wrong, you know, let's look at like okay this thing happened to me or I saw this when I was really young or my parents had these 1970s strip poker cards that they left out like all the time for like this period of a year and all and the pictures big pictures right and there were things that it's like oh okay maybe maybe you were exposed to something before you actually wrapped your head around what it was and in you know before you were you know developmentally ready for it. But rather than going oh well I'm ashamed that I saw that or I experienced that and I'm ashamed I feel this way now instead we can like start dissecting those stories and rewriting it and going well okay but I do like this and this thing does turn me on. So how do I rewrite it in the story that I have now in a way that feels good for me and my partner and instead of making myself wrong because come back to it is like sex is a gift. And if you feel ashamed about what you find desirable you and because there are all kinds of kinks and other things you know some people really like to be choked. Somebody choked me I would punch them right in the face don't choke me but if you won't pull my hair you know we can start talking right like we all have little things some people like instead of making it wrong look at hey I want to rewrite it so that it feels good because I don't want because you start making sex feel bad and then it just I don't know it creates like a weird dissonance in your body and it's like you can't really let go and fully enjoy your body that's a whole other conversation to have of like how to unpack that stuff and rewrite some old stories and that what if outside of children or anybody who can't consent or any creature who can't consent, what if nothing's wrong?
SPEAKER_03Yeah I mean it kind of comes back to that safety thing like it's like safety isn't just about that I'm safe and you're not gonna hit me. Maybe it's also about it's emotional and psychological safety for me to show up authentically and let you see me in ways that you know maybe outside of this safe container that we've created together I might have to fear being judged as wrong for this thought or this feeling or this desire but we've created this safe space for me to be honest with you and let you know that I like my toe to be sucked or whatever it is, you know and it's now you see me and I'm opening myself up to you and what happens in my body you know when that kind I'm not even sure that that's just women. I at least for me. There's a a tremendous amount of psychology in what's arousing to me. And the safer that I feel to, you know, share those things with my partner and find acceptance, then it becomes easier when I'm able to open up and share and feel safe. And you know, and I think that's part of what works so well in like my present relationship is I do feel really safe. You know, I do I can say things to her that I and I'm getting more courageous about saying them in the public. But um but you know, it's it is very activating. And I think it's like this harmony between because then that person can also open up, you know, it's like, oh, you shared that and I didn't judge you, and well, here let me let me step out and you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, you you know, I mean you start looking at the energetics of things that your energy is the blueprint and what shows up in your body is like the building that's built. Yeah, it's and so where you put your attention is where you put your energy, and where you put your energy, that's what you build. And you know, you're talking about resisting things too. Well, if you're resisting it, you're giving it your attention and your energy. So that's what you're building. It's like, yes, we have a body, and our bodies have needs and desires and and itches and and all of the things, but in order to have the kind of really fulfilling encounters, what's the blueprint? What's the energetic? You know, what's what's behind all of it? And and that's where you know, we're talking about like unpacking shame and and the communication and letting go of those energetic walls where you hurt me. Well, I'm not gonna let you in. So like you can have sex with me, but you're not really gonna get in, but which means that I'm not really gonna enjoy it. You know, it's like all of those things that are all interwoven. And so it comes back to who are you being? What's the energy? What's that blueprint? You know, what is what's that back there? And is there any blueprint that is unacceptable? I don't think so. I think it's just you get to choose the safest way and the most loving way to express, and that's gonna look different for every couple, or yeah, like whatever.
SPEAKER_03Right. Uh two or more consenting adults that create things together. Well,
What's Amanda's Next Sexual Edge?
SPEAKER_03so what is the edge that you see yourself on right now that you can see just beyond it, like in your sexual expression and your relationship and your body and how you're unpacking things for yourself sexually. Is there something that you're like, I'm not ready to take that leap yet, but this is something that I feel called and drawn to and in myself and in my relationship?
SPEAKER_00Um, that's a really good question. I feel like we've just started scratching, you know, the surface of what's available to us. And like I said before, everything I mean, they say it's about women, but I think men and women both. But I know for me, absolutely, like what's going on for me energetically and emotionally a hundred percent plays out in the bedroom. You know, when and I say that in quotes, right?
SPEAKER_03Or wherever.
SPEAKER_00Right. The bedroom outside in the car. Um so really for me, there are there are things that I know that I need to let go of. I'm somebody who has a tendency to hold a grudge. I'm like very forgiving until I'm not. And it's like, and now we have a lifelong vendetta. So like there are things that I'm learning to let go of, which of course, you know, how you do one thing is how you do other things. So learning to let go of old hurts and resentments so that I can learn to actually like let go a little bit more and truly be open. So there's I don't know, maybe that's part of the reason some of those books are so, you know, popular because maybe there are a lot more women who really struggle to like get past things. It's like you hurt me, and it's like I forgive you, but I'm not gonna forget and I'm still gonna hold you to it. You know, there's a little bit of like those books are I'm not gonna let you hold on to it. We're gonna blow right past all those barriers. So yeah, I think right now, like my biggest edge is like really learning. It's I mean, it's energetic, it's having more grace for myself, really having a devotion of honoring me instead of tiptoeing and let me make sure everybody else is okay first, and especially my husband, and then I get what's left over. So I think you know, it's like pouring into me and then really working on letting go uh those hurts and resentments so that way I can actually be fully present and fully like in it.
SPEAKER_03I love that. That's cool how those kind of that kind of work has dividends in the in the bedroom or on the kitchen counter or whatever. Um and you have a pool, so you know I don't know if that's a place for you, but like I know for me, if I had a pool, I would I would definitely be like, hmm, things could happen there. Or next to or next to, right? Exactly. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. No, I yeah, I I just life is a gift. Everything that it contains is a gift too, and even the hard parts and the challenges. And because you get to learn a little bit more, you get to like step into a little bit more of who you are, you get to step into saying, Hey, this is what I want, hey, this is what I don't want, hey, this is what's important to me. And you get to learn a little bit more who you are. And I think the more you know and express who you are, just the more lit up you are, and the more lit up you are, the more fun you have in in all areas, right? And yeah, but for sure, it's um I don't know if it's like the whole Sag Sun part of me. But it's like, oh, we're gonna turn everything into a philosophical educational experience. But I I yeah, that's probably why I like books. I don't know.
SPEAKER_03Well, I mean, I think that's cool when you know that about yourself. This is how I work. Yes, this is where the buttons are. You know.
SPEAKER_00Um you know where the buttons are, you know how to push them.
SPEAKER_03Right. Know where the buttons are, know how to push them, rub them, lick them, all those things. Yeah. So you uh before we started actually recording, you were
Books As Portals for Sexual Exploration
SPEAKER_03we were talking about books, romance, spicy romance books, and what you see as the way that that can be a tool for a woman to unlock and explore things sexually. Would you be willing to kind of talk about that some? Because I think that's such a rich topic, and it's gonna be the rest of my life to work at that because I think it's you were inspiring for me as you were talking about that. So I'd love to hear you talk about it.
SPEAKER_00Well, okay, yes. Well, first of all, like books in general, I think are just like magical portals. You know, growing up, the abuse that I had, books were a way for me to step outside of that, right? It was a way for me to explore what it looked like to be brave, to explore things, to explore yourself, to all all of these experiences that I didn't have growing up, I got to have through books, which then informed me a lot, like who I wanted to be in the world and what kind of friend and what kind of partner and what kind of leader and all of that. Like I got so much out of that, out of all of these books that I read, you know, because I get little pieces. And then as an adult, when you start reading books that are in, you know, the romance and the romanticy and the, you know, whether you call it smutt or spicy, they're their stories, right? They're fictional characters, and you can place yourself into that. And so it's so it gets to be a really safe space and a safe way to learn about things, you know, not the world is huge and the world of sexuality is huge. And we, you know, we aren't gonna have all of the experiences in the world because we don't, we don't know, you know, you don't know what you don't know. And so reading these books, I think it allows women, and it certainly allowed me, to one explore things that I like, to explore and kind of vicariously experience things that, okay, maybe I don't actually want to experience that in real life, but I we can bring elements of that into the bedroom. You know, it it allows you to try on different things, you know. There are books that you read and you go, oh no. Not interested in that.
SPEAKER_04No, thank you.
SPEAKER_00Um I think it's, you know, and we talk about sexuality, but it also enables you to look at, am I interested in in toying, even if it's just mentally with like same-sex stuff? Uh, what is that? You know, am I intrigued by that? Or maybe it's a safe way to explore some of that, even though you're like, that's not really what I want. But it is kind of it is kind of interesting. You know, you can um it it's I think it's just it's it's really such a safe way to explore all sorts of sexuality and without actually putting yourself at risk. Because, you know, there are some of those things where, you know, like in the romantic books, you have you have multiples and they're written in large part, they're written by women. So you have a lot of the nuance in there, right? You have a lot of the, you know, it's it's not abusive. And so you you get an opportunity to go, oh, that's really interesting, without actually putting yourself in a situation where you have multiple people who may not they because they've got their own stuff, right? And so they may not see you and and you may get hurt, or you may pick something up that you don't want to pick up, you know, all of those things. And and it it's it's almost like test driving different experiences. And the other side of that is I think it reminds women of like, oh, you are a sexual being. You aren't just a mom, you aren't a grand, just a grandma or an aunt or a daughter or whatever, right? Like you are a full woman who actually does have desires, even if you squash them down. And I think some of these books allow women to kind of unpack, like, oh yeah, there's that thing. Oh, maybe I do want some of that. And I think it can open up conversation in in a relationship. But most importantly, I think it really does open up that conversation with yourself of like, what is it that I like? What is it that I want? Is where are my standards, you know? And maybe in some cases they look at their current relationship and if their partner is refusing to change or grow with them, go, okay, maybe I'm not gonna have a faded mate like in the romantic kind of situation, but surely there's somebody who's going to actually give a damn about my pleasure and show up and grow with me. So I think I think books in general that you know are portals and books, you know, around romance and around the female pleasure is really a portal and a permission slip into what it is to step into that that wild, juicy, lit up version of yourself.
SPEAKER_03I love that so much. That's what I want to create for sure. I want my books to be that. I I feel like I could talk to you for hours. I mean, only yeah, I am a talker. That is something I got in so it's a beautiful gift, and it's like the all the energy and the wildness coming out and your conversation and your thoughts. It's fantastic. It's so rich.
SPEAKER_00Took me a while to appreciate that, you know, after years of having on my report card. Does well talks too much.
SPEAKER_03Uh, I mean, don't you feel like the school system? I don't know. It's
Divine Feminine Refusing To Stay Small
SPEAKER_03it's just another way that, like, systemically in our society, we don't really hold space for the divine feminine very well. No, we just don't. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00No, which I think ultimately, oh, maybe that's part of the reason that so many aspects of sexuality are shamed because that's the that's like the weed growing up through the sidewalk or through the crack in the road. It's you can't like it's gonna come out. But that's the one aspect of humanity that it's like it it just seems like it won't be contained. Yeah, like right. And there are so many parts of us that so many of us walk around making ourselves smaller and quieter, more palatable and just and easier to digest. And just like don't make too much of a wave, don't make too big of a shadow, just like be quiet. And it's like sex is like, fuck that. And that's like that's like the unruly child, which maybe Freud wasn't too far off, you know, like that being like this, you know, id part of us. But it's that that maybe that's part of the gateway, right? Maybe that's part of the portal, is like tapping into your bigness. No pun intended. Um but you know, it's it's that how expansive can I be? How loud can I be? How wild can I be? How free can I be? And I think sex can absolutely be a portal. And if you look at your life and your sex life is, you know, on life support, then the rest of your life probably is too. And so if you want to wake up the rest of your life, like sex can be a portal to like to turn everything on. That gets to be the, you know, that wild aspect of you that goes, no, I'm here and I'm gonna be loud and I'm gonna be rude and I'm gonna be unruly and uh I'm going to be selfish and I am I'm gonna speak up for what I want. And I'm gonna say no to the things that I don't want.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I think maybe that's part of the reason that sex is so shamed because there are aspects that leak out and they go, No, I want this, I'm gonna get it. And people are like, how dare you! Right. Yeah, how dare you step outside of the tiny little cog box that we put you in? Go back in there and be quiet, don't be a full-fleshed human being. And I think sex gets to be a no, it's got ooze, it's got ooze out of me. Sorry.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. And don't you think that as sexual energy builds, it's like our it's almost like an emboldening of that part of ourselves that desperately wants to be authentic. Like it's it's like maybe when I wasn't turned on or even a little bit simulated, I was willing to accept the jail cell. But as that arousal starts, as that sexual energy builds, it's like this A, the cell starts to feel like I'm not gonna tolerate it. And it also starts to feel this like power that I think I might be able to break out of it. Both things kind of happen, right? So, yeah, I mean, and it is wild because it's like I might knock a wall out here, but that's that's what I have to do. That wall didn't really need to be there anyway. Um yeah.
SPEAKER_00Marvin, thank you so much for having me on.
SPEAKER_03Oh my god, thank you for coming on.
SPEAKER_00Conversation.
Marvin aka Morgan HaleThat was very rich. Thanks for listening to Filthy Little Secrets. I hope we left you feeling light, free, and inspired to explore your filthy sexual horizons. If you want more, subscribe to get all the filthy feature funds. If you're a sex positive woman who'd like to burn another bra of shame, I want to talk to you. Wanna come on the show and tell your story? Go to Morganhale Books.comslash podcast to learn more. That's M O R T A N H A L E Books.comslash Podcast. Until next time, this is Morgan Hale, encouraging you to keep it real and filthy.