Filthy Little Secrets
A show where women get real about sex.
To praise pleasure.
And bless boldness.
One candid conversation at a time.
Join us for this heart to heart chat about something most of us think about, dream about, and even yearn for, but few of us feel comfortable admitting it, talking about it, or celebrating it.
Let's get filthy together.
Learn more at https://filthylittlesecrets.com/
Filthy Little Secrets
From Good Girl to Goddess: Kristin Birdwell on Embracing the Wild Within
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In this episode of Filthy Little Secrets, host Marvin (aka Morgan Hale) has a candid conversation with tantric healer and bestselling author, Kristin Birdwell. They discuss the importance of breaking sexual taboos and addressing the lingering stigma surrounding women's sexuality. The conversation delves into their personal journeys of sexual awakening, healing from abuse, the power of storytelling, and the fusion of spirituality with sexuality. They also share experiences from play parties, tantra retreats, and the impact of sexual freedom on other aspects of life. Toward the end, they explore the concept of sex magic and conclude with Kristing reading a filthy excerpt from one of Marvin's books.
Get more of Kristin at https://www.kristinbirdwell.com/
Welcome to Filthy Little Secrets, the show where real everyday women get real about sex. We're here to shatter stigma and trample taboo one candid conversation at a time. My name's Marvin, but my readers know me as Morgan Hale, filthy romance author, and I'm your host for this heart-to-heart chat about something most of us think about, dream about, and even yearn for. But few of us feel comfortable admitting it, talking about it, or celebrating it. So let's get filthy together.
SPEAKER_03Alright, everybody. I get to introduce you to a super awesome person who I've just met recently, but we know each other like before we met, we knew each other. I think that's gotta be true. We're super we're super aligned in at least a couple of ways. One is her 11 appreciation for the power of story, which I also feel called to master and use as a way to just express what's inside of me. And she's also someone who has a deep appreciation for the appealing power of our sexuality. And she is a tantric healer, she's a best-selling author, shears books with other writers who need some help in that area. And I have had conversations with other potential guests who were in the space of sexuality. Not everyone in that space is willing to come and be vulnerable and open themselves up to share. But I've always felt like, you know, if there's a woman, I mean, first of all, to me, any woman in this, even in the Stone Age who steps out into the arena of I want to talk about sex. To me, she's a badass because we still, even in 2025, have a tremendous amount of, I think, particularly shaming of women in that conversation. And I've seen it firsthand just doing this podcast because even the women who've been brave enough to come on the show and open themselves up have uh with the exception of maybe two of them, they've kind of had some nervousness about it and some hesitation about who would know about the episode and that kind of thing, and it's all totally understandable because this is a conversation that you just don't see a lot on social media. Like people are coming out on their social media mostly. So for me, someone like you who's like, I'm gonna just take that leap, I'm gonna come out, and this is gonna be a conversation that I'm going to publicly have. I just feel like you and women like you are superheroes in the world. The fact that you're willing to come here and just open yourself up and like not just to talk about sex in a kind of an academic way, but but to really tell some of your story. So I'm very grateful.
SPEAKER_05I'm so excited to be here. And I I was kind of like chuckling on my insides because I'm like, I don't know if I chose this or if like you know, I was nudged a little bit, but I mean I did. I I answered the call. Um, but it is sex is still so like seen as taboo, and I think that's because there's so much power within that realm of you know, sexuality, especially when there's been tension. And yeah, so I mean, like, even just like a little side story in the titling workshop of like my book, I it was originally called the scenic route home because that's what it felt like to get home to myself. I was like trying all the different things, sampling all the different men and some occasionally women, and then um, you know, substances and different external validation. Then I was like, Oh, okay, it really felt like it was a journey coming home to myself and like healing from abuse and grief and that sort of thing. And I was in the tiling workshop and they said, Um, so tell us a little about it. And I was like, Well, it's like the sex, the drugs, and then the tapping into the soul part. And they're like, that's your title. Like it might have felt like writing it was the scenic grow at home. And I was like, okay. And it was honestly like this feeling of it felt like my skin was shedding shame and both like mine and shame that was projected onto me, like growing up or from others, because I've done some things that are polarizing. And like to for me, the openness and the vulnerability is so healing. And I didn't want to live a double life anymore. I didn't want to, I knew like what I had felt and experienced, and I'm like, I thought that there could be a lot of wisdom shared within the story and journey. And and it's kind of taken, you know, a path that I didn't anticipate, which is beautiful. And to like the tantric realms, which we can dive into and explore all that juiciness. But looking back, I'm like, I as a kid, like I loved how things felt in my pants or took really long showers, you know, or or had some like other experiences. But then I think so I've always been like a sexual being, but then it was like had to be kept under wraps, and we don't talk about it, and or you're gonna go to hell, or like so many different variants. So to be where I am today, like the dots connect, but in the and in some ways, I'm like, oh wow, I'm definitely not that good, girl. I had to shed her, even though I wore that persona for a long time.
SPEAKER_03God see, everybody that's listening to this and has listened to me is like getting it right now. How much we are like separated at birth because holy shit, I mean, there's what you just said. I resonate so much with that story. I have felt and battled with shame about my sexuality my whole life. And yet, I'm aware that like on a macro level, there is a disproportionate amount of shaming of women when it comes to sexuality. So to me, I mean, not that there's a competition, but to me, it's like you had a whole nother layer of shit to deal with that I didn't just because of gender, right?
SPEAKER_05So it's interesting, like that, you know, I I don't know too much about this concept other than it's like Madonna or whore. Yeah, there are certain stigmas, like I felt a lot of it growing up. It's like, you know, the men go and do and and have fun, but if I if I do it, I'm a slut. But now it's like, call me a slut. Trust me, I've called myself probably and judged myself harsher than anybody ever has. So it's like just going on that journey of self-acceptance and self-love. And and I had this powerful meditation yesterday, actually. It was uh Dr. Joe with Maylon, that new one that was recently released, I think like how many days ago. And because I had an experience online where a reel went semi-viral, it had like 170,000 views or something, and and they were like, they were coming for me in the comments. Those trolls were like, they had done some exercises in their fingers to do all the little typing. And and it made me like almost I was like, Wow, that's like you know, I'm sensitive. This hurt my feelings, and so I took a step back. I'm like, okay, but I had this moment in that meditation. I was like, you know what? They can have whatever opinion, and I'm gonna love them anyway. And to me, it's more reflective on where they're at in their judging process of themselves. So why concern myself with something I can't control? That's awesome. I I don't want to say that you have to be like super open and out for a sexual journey to feel expansive and free or liberating, right? Um, but for me, I felt I felt called to do that or take that step. And it's been it's been pretty pivotal. But there's been like markers where it's like, okay, I had one with my book. Um I'm like, okay, this story and you know, dating sugar daddies and doing lots of cocaine and all this stuff that like that's gonna be out in there. And like people don't know me as that. They know me as the girl who got good grace, they know me as the girl who checked all the boxes and presented, and like, you know, I was either um a people pleaser at the time. And so I would be whatever anybody wanted me to be, which now I'm like, okay, that was kind of manipulating. Um, but also compassionate. But anyway, and then just recently, within the last few weeks, month or two, just coming out even as a tantric healer. Um, like kind of just being like, all right, adding it to my website, um, showing up on like a tantra website. I mean, so it's been different gradual steps and progressions. It wasn't just like, you know, and then like I remember a podcast interview that I did. Um, I was like, all right, I just need to take a little breath. I'm just gonna need to nurture myself today because it feels edgy that it's going out there. But it's I know and I trust that it's for the best. And no matter what happens, I trust that I'm gonna be able to handle it. And so that's it's just been like a progression. And each time I do that, I trust myself a little more. I get a little more like, you know, wings and and flutter.
SPEAKER_03I I love it. It's very encouraging for me. Um, just hearing about you doing it. I mean, and you mentioned Dr. Joe, he has this quote that when the gap between who you are in private and who you are in public closes, that's when you're free. Oh doesn't it feel good?
SPEAKER_05I just had something run through my body.
SPEAKER_03You know, and so I just know for me that Yeah, when there's no real secrets that you can't that you won't already know about me, like whatever it is, because I'm just the the person that I am in private and the person that I am in public because you know that gap is closed. That that is freedom, you know, for me. I'm I'm looking forward to it, and at the same time, of course, you know, nervous. So it's inspiring too.
SPEAKER_05Thank you. I mean, it's definitely vulnerable. And but I kind of I remember this comedian one time giving this bit about how we're vulnerable all the time, like we're we could die at any moment. Right, you know, and then so and like looking at it through that perspective, it's like, but I feel like if we make the conscious choice to be vulnerable and like to have like those conversations take the the steps, like do the you know, show up for ourselves, and you know, bit by bit a a world of possibilities open up and and I learn about myself, I've discovered new things, and then I and it's also like a process for me of giving myself permission to evolve and play and experiment. Like, okay, you know, I've experimented with okay, am I gonna be monogamous? Am I am I poly? I have a lot of love in my heart to give. Like, so it's trusting and knowing that just because I try on one hat for a while doesn't mean I have to wear that hat all the day, every day. I don't, you know.
SPEAKER_03Right. Yeah, like giving yourself permission and freedom to explore and figure out what fits for you. Yeah. I mean, instead of like subscribing to what's been prescribed for you, whatever that is, you know, but to actually like just go with within and then as you travel through your relationship experiences and how do I feel about that as a process? I I'm not a big fan of labels at all, but I feel like if you were to try to put a label in me, I've definitely landed on a I'm a very polyamorous person. Um but you know, that came on the tail end of a long crucible of trying to be monogamous and failing miserably and being depressed and hospitalizations and all kinds of stuff.
SPEAKER_05So um so yeah, but you know, I recently heard this cool term and this new concept called relationship anarchy. And I was like, I freaking love it. And I'm I'm not an expert on in the concept. I I had someone on my podcast share a lot of the knowledge and wisdom, and she was awesome, and like she'd be great to have on here too. But she said um that sometimes in people in poly relationships end up having like a bunch of different monogamous type relationships or like just multiples. And so so for her, the concept is like creating the relationship dynamic for your own individual needs, wants, and desires when valuing each one and not having one as like a hierarchy type of thing. Cause I had asked too. It's like, okay, well, do you have a primary partner? Like, how does this work? And so everybody having the same amount of value, the willingness to own their sovereignty and have the conversations that they need to have. So she's like, you know, when some I have an agreement with someone that whenever I'm wanting downloads for my business, he knows that he he's going to town, you know? And I'm like, is what she said. I was like, I love that. And and valuing friendships just as much and not limiting physical touch in certain friendships and that sort of thing. And I was like, well, well, shit, when I think about it, some of my girlfriend relationships, some have been some of my longest, most successful relationships I've had in my life. And those aren't um necessarily sexual relationships, but they're just as valuable to me. Also, she said there was a key, it's about it's about owning our desires and discovering those desires and also how we feel about our desires. Like, are we worthy about them? What fears do we have around them, or what feelings come up around them, that sort of thing. So it was a really cool conversation. Like you just said about not the wearing labels. I find it hard to put myself into one box or one because I'm like, I wear a bunch and I color outside the lines. So um, and I and I change, you know, what I want today may not be what I want in five, five days, five years, five months, whatever. I just I value freedom, and so it seems like it has a lot of freedom within that kind of structure.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, that's 100% what it is for me too. It's like I just want to be free to be mouth in itself, yeah. And so, like, even the poly label to me, because there's there is now, you know, a pretty mature polyamorous community, and they have developed a whole kind of rhetoric around, well, this is what polyamory is, this is what the shape of it is, and if you're poly, then these are the things you are. And I'm like, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, or trying to fit like or line up certain stereotypes or something.
SPEAKER_03Right. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, it feels kind of in the neighborhood of where I am, but also there's just you know, it's like as soon as we start trying to, I don't know, make a framework around what it is, you know, then then I'm gonna be like, I kind of need to knock this wall out of here. I'm starting to feel a little yeah, so I love that you said freedom. Well, so let's see. I feel like there's so many places that we could go in this conversation.
SPEAKER_05How does that little mind of yours want to wander?
SPEAKER_03Well, I definitely feel like you probably got some really juicy stories I would love to hear. A ton. I might need a prompt though. Okay, yeah, yeah, cool.
SPEAKER_05Oh, because I'm like, we're all gonna like mm. Uh okay, I'm like, let me think here. I mean, there's everything from like when I had my what I think was a sexual awakening to first play party, first tantra, uh retreat slash training.
SPEAKER_03How about we do those three?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and I will say too, you know, I I'm a firm believer. I've had a lot of initiations and woundings and abuse in my life in the sexual space and capacity. But I and I believe that there's always a pearl or a wisdom. And I think that actually points to my mission or to be here and stand in this purpose even more so because I can connect with people on different levels. So I just want to drop that in there too. I've that I've had those experiences, and that I've also had these like really wild and fun and you know, reclaiming sexual curiosity type of experiences and playful. And I've also had conscious celibate periods. So it's just um, it's been a variety in a in a mixed bag, but I mean, there's 21-year-old me showed that's the sugar daddy one. Um, like I'd always liked older dudes, and so I remember being a broke ass college student and seeing a uh Dr. Phil episode of this guy providing like condos and cars and money, and they were in love. And I was like, Well shit, I already I already like older guys and I want some adventure. Like I'm looking at this geography map and I'm like, I haven't been out of the country. I'm from a town of like 2,000 people, more cows than there are people. And and I how do I know what I really believe if I don't go and see and do and experience life? And so I signed up and then I immediately got bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing. And I was like a little overwhelmed. And I then I um think I had to Google the term cuckle because I didn't know what it was at the time, and because someone asked me if I was okay with that or like if I was into that, and I was like, Google define and then I go back and then I'm like, and then I'm like, ah so at first it like freaked me out. Now it's someone like that's kind of a turn on, but but then so I was like, okay. So I waited, I like I was like, oh, maybe not now. I canceled and freaked out and like deleted my profile, but then fast forward a few years and I put a little more booze in my system, and I was like really wanting to go for it this time, and then I just saw this profile that was really witty and he was handsome and said he was like, You want to get drunk and make some questionable decisions? I just turned 21, so I was like, sign me up, took my best. Yeah, but it was like 2009, so there were no apps or date, you know, it was uh pre-app swiping era, so I was kind of nervous. I feel like uh online dating was really just kind of like get gaining traction. And you know, maybe some of the OG sites like eHarmony might have existed, but I don't think that, you know, that I mean this one's like sugar netty for me or something. So anyway, I was like, Well, are you cool if my best gay guy friend comes with me? Because he could also be a witness or like support, moral support. And you're like, Yeah, sure, no problem. So we go and I have that experience, and that turns into like a whirlwind, turbulent relationship. And I remember at some point, I'm like, whoa, I know my life is never gonna be the same after this, and I didn't know in what capacities. There was some sexual trauma within that relationship. There was some sexual exploration, you know, within the BDSM world. Although I did not know that term then. We I mean, like we would experiment and play with other women. I remember we would record ourselves and I struggled with body dysmorphia back then. And sometimes still, like I you will see pictures like, wow, I I thought of that of myself when I look like this in this photo. Like when I look at it through my eyes of today, and I'm like, damn, like I have a lot of compassion. But then I was like, I was like, oh, that's what my body looks like. Oh, it kind of gave me like a little bit of a bird's eye view and more appreciation for like my curves and my feminine form. And so that was a very interesting relationship on and off for seven years. And he's primarily in the book, and he read it, and he's like, Don't get me wrong, I don't like that I'm the main character or one of them, but but as far as writing and and taking ownership, I take ownership and I'm so proud of you. Like, so that was very validating, even though I would have done it, I would have published it and gone forward either way, but I was nervous sharing it with him, changed all the identifying details. Um, I you know, I there's a lot. I'm like, there's so much. You said I have like a penchant for bad boys. Um, my first sexual awakening experience, like uh this was in tail end of 2020. And it was like my body came online. And like my partner and I were were in this vibe and flow, and it was like we were reading each other's minds and like synced breathing and all this stuff. And I was just like blown away. And it was the most depth and connection I'd ever felt, like during sex, like true into like real depth, and just I was like, Whoa, what did we tap into? And I send him a message and I'm like, Did you study like Tantra or something? Like, what the fuck was that? And he's like, No, not at all. And I'm like, What? And so, you know, fast forward, I read this book called Sex Shaman, and um, she comes to the realization, and I've come to the realization that I was like, it was me. I was ready for that. Like, I was like, Oh, so that was kind of like a slingshot into studying or like diving into tantric exploration, like what is it? Um, what does it include? And it felt like a homecoming because of like my religious upbringing and everything. I was like, oh wow, there's a pathway for spirituality and living life that embraces my human desires. Because I felt so long, like I had to choose one or the other, like I had to tote the line or and and not have a tequila or or have some, you know, playful or healing mushroom journeys. Like I value, I like both. And so I just felt like that's just inner battle and conflict. And I'm like, what if it's all okay? What if um, you know, I kind of step take a step back from that dualistic perspective and really just come on. I just, yeah. So then I remembered a girlfriend of mine. Uh, this leads into the the first Tantra trainingslash temple experience, which was I felt like I was on mushrooms, but I was completely entirely sober. I was just so tapped in and present and just like, you know, those moments when like you can really hear the um and feel the interconnectedness and like get signals and downloads and messages, and it was just like one after the other. But a girlfriend had recommended this training called Ista to me. It's the International School of Temple Arts. And, you know, the whole while I'm like writing my book, getting ready to publish, and I was like, well, to celebrate my book, which published um June of 2022, I was like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna scope out this this Ista thing. And then it just so happened, I had also been wanting to go to Guatemala, to Lake Atlan, and then uh probably butchering that. I don't know. But um gorgeous, gorgeous setting. I love the water, like them, these mountains meet the water. And then I'm like, oh, that's right after my book. So I literally like published my book, and a week or two later, peace out, I'm I'm going to Guatemala and I'm starting my next chapter and I'm like celebrating it. Well, that training helped take a lot of the mental understandings that I had through the memoir writing process. Like the ahas, and really helped them become more of an embodiment and gave me a lot of tools to implement into my life and integrate. Like people even said afterwards, like your voice has changed. Like you're you're talking differently. You might have been talking up here, or now you know now it's deeper, or it's like there's something about you. They couldn't put their finger on it. And Ista likes to keep a lot of their rituals sacred, but you could probably find a lot of them on Reddit or something. I'm just saying. But um that isn't like because there's a part of me that's like, okay, I want to honor those rituals, but then there's some that I also practice now in my tantric healing practice. So there's an interesting dance, right? Um, but for me, yeah, I mean, if there is everything from like reparenting exercises to, you know, different circle shares, energy and emotional release techniques and tools and aspecting with different parts of ourselves or different people, temple nights, which uh the first one, those like going into, I was like, I was scared a little bit. I was like, okay, I like I know I can say no. You know, and they gave us this framework framework for conversation and that sort of thing. And up until a certain point, like the container is closed, like you can't approach anyone for any experience or conversation or to explore like any kind of potential, you know, connection uh until like the temple nights or until they say, like, okay, now the the field is open. And so that first night I was there a little bit, and then I was like, oh, okay, you know what? Tomorrow, tomorrow. And so yeah, I ran up to my little hut. I was like, all right. And I was also on my cycle at this time. So I felt very vulnerable. Um it's like on my period, and I was like, which, you know, I feel like I'm able to tap into more of the wisdom and the in the teachings and the interconnectedness when I am. But it also was like, do I really want to go to this fucking temple? Like that I went, this really my first one. And then I went back and it was so cool. Like, you know, the voyeuristic voyeuristic side of me, and like there was an area of people cuddling, and then there was an area of people playing music, and then in the center there were some people dancing, and then in one corner, another area, they're like shabaring and ropes, and then other people are having sex in one corner, and then there's another one where there's some naked massage. And so I just found myself I fought cuddled and was in the voyeuristic corner, and then I got a massage, and then I did some energetic sex practice with someone and offered some really potent insights for me because I was telling him, I was like, I just don't know if I want this like sacred union, divine partnership, or if I want to poly explore. He's like, Well, can't you take it moment to moment? And couldn't it be both? And you have those conversations as you go. I was like, Oh. I'm like, Yeah, I guess so. So that was just really beautiful and touching. Um, yeah, and I will say that it did feel like it was edging in a personal growth sexuality type of way, but they're trained, and you you do have to have a sense of sovereignty and a willingness to speak up for yourself. And that part of mine, I went there with the intention of I didn't want to have any penetrative sex with anyone. I was reclaiming me, I was deepening my relationship. I wanted to integrate my spirituality and my sexuality. And lo and behold, delivered. But it's been a practice since then. I've been, and I am, and I'm doing another year and I'm deepening and stepping into more leadership capacity with my taunt or teacher Leola. She's incredible. It's been such a transformative year. I'm very grateful for her. I'm very grateful for that container. Um and and the fact that she's inviting me to step up and like initiate me into more devotion to the path. But because I was in that container, I got to two tickets to a play party. So we had our um pleasure priestess initiation days, which were these two beautiful days of women initiating and you know, anointing and doing all these different pleasure rituals and and learning and sharing, and and that's healing for all the sister wound stuff because you know, there's so much like competitive over collaboration. And the third day or the night um was like a play party. And I was nervous to go, I hadn't gone to one before because I kind of felt like, okay, I'm a I'm a woman, I'm a pretty woman, and like I'm going into the world, you know. I just kind of felt like a little bit overwhelmed in my nervous system. Like I am, I know I can say no. I I trust myself to honor myself and check in all those things, but I had this story or vision in my head where I was gonna be bombarded, and that kind of freaked me out, and I got into my head. Um, but this one I felt so like regulated going into. I had defined like my mildest experience that I wanted, and I had defined my wildest experience that I wanted. And I got like my mildest going into that part play party was just being a voyeuristic and just being there and witnessing all of the beautiful experiences. And then my wildest was actually got accomplished within like the first less than an hour was uh I wanted to have a more connection with a woman or play and experiment. And it had been a long, it's been a long time since I had done that. And so we they pair us up for this connective exercise, and I get paired up with a woman. And then um, she gives us this prompt of you can either kiss, hug. And this is like very introductory, like just getting the kind of like the flow of things, right? And so she's uh you can either kiss, hug, or eye gaze. And so we both said that we were okay with kissing, and there were three prompts. Well, the first prompt was uh kiss one another like it's the first time you've ever kissed someone. And so it was really interesting, like the feelings that it stirred and the butterflies, and I kind of felt like I was that little girl in between hay bills having my first kiss again, and then and then the next one was kiss like uh you haven't seen each other in a long time. And so that one was more like you know, hungry and yearning and that sort of thing. And then the other prompt was kiss like it's gonna be the last kiss you're ever gonna have. And that one brought up a lot of grief for me. And like still it still makes my eyes water a little bit.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I felt that when you said that. I was like, wow, I'm like, wow.
SPEAKER_05And so I was like, wow, how would I kiss someone if it was the last kiss I'm ever gonna have? Like, how long would I savor it? How present would I be? Like how would like would I would I take my time? You know, would I would I touch her face? Would I like what touch her hair first? Would I make longer eye contact before I kiss? Um, yeah, it was really interesting um and beautiful. And then, you know, as it turns out, she had come there with her boyfriend partner, and they wanted to explore like maybe having some kind of massage or maybe some light um contact play. And I'm like, I'm open. And so um, and then another woman joins us, and so it's the four of us, and we each go through like our boundaries, our desires, and our fears, and they gave us a framework before going to this play party. We had to have a Zoom call if it was your first one, and kind of go over and practice these conversations. And so you go in there with like knowing the format, right? And not in an awkward way. It's like, okay, well, this is this this is this, and I'm cool with this, but I'm not cool with that. And my last test was this tape, um, or I no penetration or you know, or whatever it is. Um, and then you know, even like down to like I'm desiring maybe uh more watery base fluid touch, or you know, I want more fiery touch or scratches, or I just want, I really want someone to just put their full body and weight on me. Um, but then so three people doing that at one time. It was like so pleasurable. I'm like, oh my god.
unknownYes.
SPEAKER_05Oh, I could talk about that so long. And then just like while you're in your experience, sometimes I would like, you know, in the between breaks, because we each gave it a time amount, like it's like 10 or 15 minutes that we would be the sole focus of attention. And then I would look in like there's this gorgeous couple making love, and there's like, you know, people over here just cuddling, and then there's you know, someone over here having a snack, and there's people outside naked in the hot tub, and you know, it's just like I'm like, wow, there's just so much love and pleasure and openness and receptivity and acceptance in this room. Yeah, that I was it's just really beautiful to witness um and be part of. And I believe that the pleasure is medicine and it helps regulate the nervous system. And I feel like, you know, a lot of times that can be the first thing to go, like how taking care of ourselves or the pleasure and that, and it could be anything from chocolate to like really taking the time to nurture myself or like be with myself and in bed or exploring pleasure mapping, like different sensations and roses, and I love roses, feathers, and do I want to play with like candles and like some of the hotter wax or the massage oil candles or ice cubes? Like I love sensuality. I would even say that that's kind of like more leaning towards what I like play party wise, although I do like I'm working on a couple of projects, so I'm like, I've gotta go to a swingers club at least for research, you know, because I've never been to like that type of uh club before.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's exciting and well, you're gonna have to come back after you've had that experience. I have had some experiences with the swinging community and and um you know, I mean, I think for me witnessing it was there used to be in Nashville, and they've closed, but there used to be it was kind of a high-end nightclub that was for you know swingers. And they had a ring. Uh it was like a two-story club, and then the downstairs was like a dance floor with seating around it, but then like the upstairs was usually where all the really you know naughty things happened, and they had this like big room that had almost like a U-shaped formation of these leather couches, and I almost it was like at midnight that everybody just moved from the dance floor upstairs, and that room became like ground zero for this massive orgy. And I remember standing there and just witnessing all these naked bodies and this like high-off, and you know, I'm an energetically sensitive person, and for me the the energy was it's funny because you know, now I've been doing this Kundalini work and really experiencing like a movement of my energy and feeling such a real strong sensation of like connection to source, the divine God, whatever anybody wants to name it. Um, but it was the same sensation.
SPEAKER_05I was gonna say, I was like, I've found God through sex and like pleasure, and like even just like I feel like we are God, like we are that divine essence. And for me, we're experiencing ourselves in different forms. Yeah, that's like the the meaning that feels the most expansive for me. I've practiced with different rituals where it's like I've practiced on myself and with people, and you know, I've worked with different people. If you can do it even on yourself, it's like okay, I am the priestess and the divine being receiving it. And the amount of inner it's like whoa. I was like, whoa. To me, it's also like the tapping into the mystery and the interconnectedness. Yeah, I it's really uh I mean, I'm just like get like different like little moments of I'm getting like little flashbacks or different things or pinpoints in my life, and it's it's clear it's like okay, every step, you know, played its role or had its like marker significance to to be where I am today to like come to some kind of realization like of that, if that makes sense. Because I looked outside of myself for that too in so many ways. And then like, oh, actually, we're divine, like and yeah, and then yeah, and I like finding that divinity through pleasure, and you know, I've had some amazing self-pleasure sessions with yeah, I call him Yeshua, but Jesus, I mean, they're out of this world. And I'm like, whoa. Yeah, and yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03I mean, like I was I think about I was 16 years old, 15 years old, 14 years old, whatever it was, and simultaneously I was having these profound mystical experiences that I felt connected to to God, and I was also compulsively masturbating, and you know, I'd be like in the bathtub or sitting on the toilet with a door lock or whatever and feeling such a connection to myself that I had at that time such a very much like what you described of this like story that it had to be one or the other, it had to be a choice, and you know, to choose one was to deny the other, and so yeah, I mean, you know, I'm I'm gonna be fifty-three in a couple weeks and uh right, and so um you know, but it's taken me this long to just bring the two together and to merge them and to see that yeah, it's like I was always this, I was just at war with myself and trying to make a choice between the two. But all along it was it was two notes that made a chord. And I was trying to keep them separate and they were meant to be I love what you're saying because you know that's really been my story too of just yeah, like that they compliment each other so beautifully because they're meant to.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, that it's such a beautiful like coming home moment or like insider to come to. That's beautiful. And I feel like it is also it's like the if people start treating one another as divine and like how come at it with that you know, that intentionality behind it. Yeah, it's game changer. And I think like on the collective side too, like in any any reaction and any, I mean, sex and then and also beyond, but I feel like sex how we have sex translates to how we interact in a lot of other areas in our life. Once I became able to ask for different sexual desires or express them or boundaries, I became more able to do that more in my it had a ripple effect.
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_05And so it just seems like even outside of sexuality or just using um the intentionality, like treating our fellow humans and you know, just divine beings as divine. It's like, would I treat myself like that? Would I talk to myself like that? What what would love do? What would you know? And I keep circling back to I strive to move from love and not for it. And it's to me, it's all it's uh all comes down to love or fear. And am I and am I coloring my sexuality or my experiences with love or fear or judgment? You know, yeah. Um, and so it's just been a transformative experience for me. And so I'm excited to even watch you continue to flower and blossom.
SPEAKER_03It's uh you know, I mean, I have moments where I'm like, why did it take this long? But but it did, and it was worth it, and I would do it all again to you know be where I'm at and to have the story that I have and the experience that I had. So I'm grateful for it.
SPEAKER_05Well, and how many other people, you know, that you could have help or speak to that are feeling that same way or resonate or have that like a deeper level of empathy with. Yeah, you know, like I know, you know, actually it came up yesterday or the day before. A girlfriend of mine's mom follows my tantra teacher, and she was like, I'm intrigued, but I don't know about all this, you know, and you know how her generation was raised. But she said that the most recent time that she saw her mom, her mom is softened. And then, you know, I sent a screenshot of or a snippet of it to my teacher, and she's like, you know, can connect her with a specific person. And um, she's like bringing this work to a demographic that went through went into specifically motherhood early and never had that awakening. You know, there it's like so it's like there's different circles of people that could bond over shared similar experiences and help one another and not feel alone because right on the journey, it's like oh you know, there's been times where I've felt alone for sure.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, for sure, me too. Yeah. And I think it is, you know, even in a way, more so now that it's like we're we're bombarded with information about each other, but it's the total picture. Like when I was younger, it was before the internet. And I was there was like a less in the I'm pre-dala.
SPEAKER_05I'm 37.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, but it's like, you know, there was less information that we were bombarded with. There was still separation. I had a tremendous amount of it. I was, you know, basing my judgments about myself based on on what I was learning from church and family and all that kind of stuff. But like enter into, you know, this like social media saturated era where there's all this information it almost feels like the volume has turned up to the narratives because everywhere I turn, I'm being presented with this version of people, but it isn't real. You know, like very few people are presenting themselves in authenticity and transparency and vulnerability. And so, you know, like I think when it comes to sexuality, it almost can feel more lonely because there's so much noise that says I'm the only one.
SPEAKER_05You know, yeah, or even just like there's so there's like so much at our fingertips. It's like a you know, little ping pong ball, like in a like little square room or something, like which where you which you know, there's so much stimulus.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_05I kind of like with you too. I grew up, yeah, definitely pre-internet. Um, or I'm or when we were able to afford it, it wasn't I was in junior high. Um, and then I mean, so the internet may have existed, but that was not into my household.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_05But um, I, you know, I remember at my dad's house, I would like try to watch some scrambled images on like show time or HBO or something. I was like, what are they doing? Um or you know, just try to like find like stuff like that. And um and then and then when it did come about, and I was like hypersexual, and that's probably due to a multitude of things early wounding, early childhood wounding, and then also I think being sexually curious and coming in and maybe being an ancient goddess in the Isis temple in another line, you know. Um, I just remember I was 12, left the skating rink with a boy, and that way we're gonna have sex. And I then my I got caught. Well, also I changed my mind at the last second, but I was also pressured into I was like, okay, well, okay, I guess my he pressured me enough. I was like, okay, yeah, I'll just acquiesce and say yes. And then I got in trouble. They caught us sneaking outside of the skating rink, and then I had to talk to a police officer. They were because he was a couple of years older than me. It was like a little personal. I'm like, God, don't you know that this was gonna happen and this can happen and this can happen? Like, so much like boom, boom, boom, all that stuff.
SPEAKER_03I don't know how I got off on this tangent, but he had this early experience of like being shamed and like spotlight and a very judgmental. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Oh, yeah, I know what I was getting to. Oh, but then come along's chat rooms and ASL, and I'm like, all right, I'm 16, 17 female California, and I'm like 12, 13, 13, maybe 14 in um Texas and a small, you know. And so I'm lying, I'm having having cyber sex with people. I uh then lo and behold, because my mom and stepdad had banned me from talking to boys on the phone, and they were recording the phone calls, so I knew I couldn't talk to boys on there, but I ended up had getting a little drug dealer phone. I was like, I'll show you, I'm gonna get my own little phone, I'll get the minutes. It had the phone with snake, and so but then I remember just feeling so much shame around my stepdad was a techie and had installed some software, and just knowing that he had read like those messages of me having cyber sex with who got god knows who in the interwebs then. Um I just remember like, oh my god, because there were printouts. And I was like, I couldn't deny it. And I'm like, uh, and it wasn't really, I was like, okay, now that I know you're doing that, I'm not gonna do that. So yeah, it was just this interesting, you know, and all those hormones, and um, I've always been a bit of a rebel. I've never liked people telling me what to do, and I are like finding my own way. Or I I call it a sacred rebel now, not being rebellious.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely, 100%. I mean, like everything that you're saying to me, I relate to so much because like at the core of it is just a yearning for freedom. Yeah. You know, and so it's like if you try to put me in a box, then uh my soul is going to fight it and try to break it down. So you took me back with the whole chat rooms thing because I mean that was definitely I mean for me the chat room experience that I think about was I mean, I was married and trying to be monogamous and failing, and I never like physically got into anything with anyone until we opened our marriage. Um but I was in some chatrooms and I mean there was this woman. That oh my gosh, at the time this was so mind-blowing for me. I'd never ever talked to a woman that was like sexually liberated. And she we were playing this game online. It was this really, really old version of this Ebony game, which is still around. There's like always new versions of it or whatever. Now it's on mobile, but at the time it was on PC. So we were playing this game. We were in like a clan together in this game. And I don't know how the conversation turned sexual, but it did. And like little by little she started to share her filthy little secrets with me. And what we came to was she and her boyfriend had an ultimate relationship, and she for her birthday, she wanted to have a gang bang with 12 men. I mean, I had never ever talked to anyone who like in real you know, and so I was just like totally fascinated eating it up, you know, just like tell me all about this. Who are you? Are you really all the other you know? And um, I mean I've I've talked about this before on this podcast about how, you know, for me personally, why this podcast is that through the course of my life there have been women who have graced me with their filthy little secrets. And I totally forgot about that particular one until we just talked about chatrooms. But I've had many, many experiences like that where women were part of my healing by being honest with me about who they were sexually and sharing their filthy little secrets. And it desol just a little bit dissolved that like separation and shame that I felt, this gap that I felt between the person that you know everybody sees and the person that you know felt like was dark and and bad and shameful, and you know, that I had all these thoughts and desires and and fascinations.
SPEAKER_05You know what? And um, I think gangbang is a common fantasy. I don't know if everyone owns it, but I think I mean I've heard I we had a call on fantasies. There was this guy that came in to talk, and he was a Tantra teacher as well, and he also helps with fantasy fulfillment. He's like, you can learn so much about yourself by exploring your fantasies and like getting curious about them and like different kinds of like gangbangs. Like, do you want like the animalistic primal one, or do you want like you know, goddess worshipy, that type of vibe? Like, or like and and why and like getting curious, which I was like, this wow, like like this is cool. But I will say the duplicity that I was living and like being and not being authentic was probably gonna kill me. And I say that because like um last last year I was like pulling into my garage and I was having suicidal thoughts. I was like, why where is this coming from? Like I, you know, like thinking, like, oh well, if that this would, this could be a way, you know. I'm like, what the fuck? And but you know, I mean, luckily I had enough tools in my tool belt that I was like, okay, something's up here. Like I, you know, I I hadn't kind of negated the traditional therapy for a long time because my parents took me to that therapist and uh, you know, dragged me in there and you know, at the church. And I was like, okay, well, he was obviously on y'all's side, you know. So I just kind of had my defenses up and I tried all these other different modalities. And turns out there's some really cool spiritual therapists that that are into mysticism as well as like they have like the training and education for therapy. And I was particularly interested in ketamine therapy because I, you know, and I'll tell you, man, even just taking that childhood ACE test of the of adverse childhood experiences, okay, I was like, damn, I was like, whoa, give me a little more compassion for myself because I was like from the jump, like there was a lot of experiences. And um, and so I I did a ketamine assisted therapy. And let me tell you, this is the interesting part. Okay, so I wrote my book. The subtitle is Finding Grace in the Shadow. And I thought I found it. I thought I had it locked in in, right? And then I I find my therapist, or they match me, they give me three different options through Journey Clinical, is who I did my um ketamine therapy with. And they're like, You're gonna have someone and uh clicked on this woman named Grace's website, and then I read it, and I'm like, Oh, there's a lot of she's trained in sexuality, she's trained in sacred sexuality. She's has all these different certifications and lenses that to which she looks through the world through. I was like, this, this, this one. And I'm like, wow, fine, I found Grace in the shadow. Like, like my therapist's name was Grace. And then I'm I'm going and like the first ketamine session, I'm like in a cornfield. I'm like, why the hell am I in a cornfield? You know, and I'm like, what is it? And I'm like, it's like an oracle session. I'm like, okay, not all of these emotions and things uh feel like they're mine. Thanks. I'm the one, you know, generation breaker. Oh, quick, cool, cool. Okay, which you know, it is what it is. Sometimes it feels like a lot, and sometimes it's like, I'm the fucking one. And then um, and then the session, it's like stay for the harvest. And I was like, ooh, okay. That's like the message that came through. And then I connected with my dad in one, and he was like, You all you had to do is ask. And then um I saw him and he lost his dad at 14 to murder and never processed a lot of pain and anger. And he's like, Yeah, I'm sorry about that. And I'm like, I saw him and like our inner child playing with one another, and it was like so beautiful. And then and then my last one, I come up. I'm like, it's something about wild, something about wild wild. And you know, as it turns out, like I was suppressing a big piece of my wild woman, a big piece of my wildness. And I had deferred it, deferred to my good girl and what I knew was gonna be liked and accepted, or what was more palatable. Um and so she's like, Yeah, you you were creating this new neural pathway. You just went back to what you knew was safe and provide you comfort and like be in love. And I was like, I was like, wow, and then I go onto her coaching website, and I had no idea that like it was a separate entity kind of thing. And her website was rewilding with grace. And I was like, Wow, and then yeah, then I went to this wild woman retreat, and you know, I'm still in the tantra training the whole time, but there's like a part of me that's like, okay, I'm doing some of the my my stuff secret. I haven't come out or stepped into the full, like, I'm an initiatrix, I'm a tantric healer, like da-da-da-da. You know, and like I know I'm a powerful healer, like I've I've seen transformation. A lot of people come to me with a lot of grief because I've walked that path and I feel like I'm walking people down a path that I've walked on however many steps, you know, or have like different tools in my tool belt to help guide. And so I just think that that's interesting that you know, to get to this point, it's like, fuck, thank you, thank you, finally. It's just like it's it's just so I don't even know if I have words for it to be honest. It's just so it's liberating. And and like now all these opportunities and beautiful people continue to come into my life like you and like different visions, and it's just it's just really awesome how it's opening up. And the more that I just like take a step back and quit trying to control every fucking thing. It's just like, wow, dream client, or you know, some beautiful insight or awareness, or someone witnessing me in something that it's like, wow, I allowed myself to be seen in that space when before I would have like processed my emotions or my tender spots by myself, you know, and like being okay to ask for help too. And so it's been a ride.
SPEAKER_03Well, I'm super grateful that you're sharing peeks into your liberated, opened up, vulnerable self here and let me see you.
SPEAKER_05Well, I'm glad that you're providing a space and opportunity to do so. And like your energy is just so um it feels safe. And um I was thinking about that whenever I think that's like a big compliment. I was chatting with someone earlier about it that you know, he's like at first when someone said that I, you know, a word for me was like peace or ease, he was like, I was like, Oh, do I want that to be? He's like, but he's like, it's such a beautiful gift uh for people to be at ease or peace enough to open up and share their filthy little secrets or whatever. And it's kind of fun to share filthy little secrets and get rid of the things that are you know eating at us. I feel like if you release it, whether your identity is known or not, sharing it with one person or the world helps liberate you.
SPEAKER_03It does. And I think anybody that hears you know this conversation is going to be liberating for them to at least give them like the lily pad that they could jump to if they're ready to, you know.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I was just thinking about how like I felt lit up when you're talking about embracing the wild inside of yourself. And that's what I really meant to say when I was saying I'm grateful that you're showing yourself here is that I know that there is and I know it because of the filthy little secrets that women have shared with me, that there is an authentic, beautiful, sacred wild inside of I don't know if it's all women, but lots of women, and it is suppressed, it is like globally, and more so outside of the United States, but plenty in the United States.
SPEAKER_05I have my theory about that because I feel like that it's so much power, and the people reconnect to themselves and are really able to tap into that energy and we're easier to manipulate and be controlled and follow along or accept what is projected onto us to believe or think or do, um, instead of like be like the conscious creators that we can be, or to be like the you know, sexual priestesses, or heal ourselves, or help heal other people, or practice sex magic. You know, my my my teacher totally told us a whole ritual about how she uh manifested her husband. I was like, this is amazing.
SPEAKER_03So no, when you say sex magic, I mean I have ideas that come to mind about what that might be, but like if you were is this something that you're using in your life currently?
SPEAKER_05Oh, yeah, yeah. Like getting myself really good and juiced up in pleasure and feeling it and feeling that pleasure course through my body. And it's like kind of like an orgasmic meditation, and like as I'm feeling the all that pleasure, and then as I'm climaxing, like sending all of that energy to you know, my vision or to love, or I've sent it to like a different country before, or like some, you know, some hardship, like there's been different experiences. So some of it has been like self-serving, some of it is for the collective, and some of it's just playful. Um, like my experimental self-pleasure sessions with Jesus. And I told some friend the other day, I was like, Did growing up in the Bible belt make me want to do it in the confessional?
SPEAKER_02Oh my god, I have the same fantasy, exact same fantasy.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, no, I know, and it's like I know that I know a location where there's a couple churches where I think they leave the door unlocked and you know, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, one of my books, ooh, this might be what we should read.
SPEAKER_04Oh, yeah, do it.
SPEAKER_03But there's a scene in one of my books where um, well, I'll just you know what? I wonder if I could find it. Let me see if I can find it. This is not the passage I was planning on sharing with you, but I had a pen name that I wrote under that was ML Patterson, and then the books are still out there, but they were really erotica. And yeah, I love it.
SPEAKER_05I love the spiciness, right? Yeah, I'm kind of toying with one right now. Um playing because a lot of my stuff is geared toward more in the self-discovery or type of thing, but I'm like, I want to play and write some like spicy fiction and explore different fantasies.
SPEAKER_03This is definitely one of Marvin's filthy little secrets. This this book.
SPEAKER_05Am I gonna read it too, or are you gonna just um Yeah, I'm gonna Okay, good.
SPEAKER_03I think we're gonna let's see here. I'm gonna try to. Can you see like a chapter four?
SPEAKER_05Yes, yes, yes, yes.
SPEAKER_03Let me just minimize this real quick.
SPEAKER_05Oh, squad car. Loving it already. Are you reading it? You're gonna read it, right?
SPEAKER_03Um, I was I was gonna see if you were down for reading. I'll read it. I'll read it, yeah. Okay, cool. All right. So so let me just kind of intro this idea. I haven't I haven't done this before on the podcast, but I had been playing with this idea that you know, like if if my guests are sharing their filthy little secrets, then maybe it would be fun for for me to get exposed.
SPEAKER_05Hey, one one little baby step at a time.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_05Every little step counts.
SPEAKER_03So so this is gonna be one of my filthy little secrets. Um I write under Morgan Hale, and these books that I wrote as Emily Patterson are eventually gonna find their way over into Morgan Hale, and it's just all gonna be Morgan Hale. But yeah, some of the first stuff that I wrote was these erotica pieces, and this book is it's like the second in a whole series. I never really named it this, but in my mind the idea was it was all gonna be called the sluthaven saga.
SPEAKER_05Sl-haven saga?
SPEAKER_03Yes. Oh, okay, fantastic. Yeah, but anyway, um this character, her name is like I need to take my jacket off. Oh yeah, I love it. So this character, her name is Naomi. She's married, and her husband, they have like an open relationship. Her husband is encouraging her to explore things. And uh so anyway, yeah, that's the backdrop of this. Okay. Okay, this is Kristen reading two pages of one of my filthy little secrets book that I wrote.
SPEAKER_05Love it. All right, chapter four. I sat in the back of the squad car, my wrist handcuffed behind my back. Officer Wilde had taken the bait, pretending to arrest me for prostitution and escorting me out of the bar. Is this the place? I looked up at the towering steeple to our lady of perpetual chastity. My rosary swinging neighbor Karen attended this church. She had become a good friend over the years, but she still had no idea about this part of me. Heck, I didn't even know about this part of me. I had a dirty mind, yes, but to think I'd be doing this? This is it. It's a good thing it's late, he said. He pulled his squad car around to the back of the church, away from the street, and backed it into a place along the edge of the lot of under some trees and facing the church. A wooden fence surrounded the back of the lot, giving us just enough privacy to have a chance at getting away with this crazy stunt. My heart fluttered in anticipation. Even though I was flexing my acting muscles, pretending to be someone else, and doing it all to try to clear my name, I did find the officer hot. And knowing I was about to pull off one of my husband's fantasies made the whole thing so much hotter. Officer Wilde opened the back door and pulled me out by the shoulder. This is what we do to whores, he growled. Not bad acting yourself. He bit me over the hood with my wrist behind my back. Stay here. Then he reached inside the car. The lights came on and painted the space around me with flickers of red and blue. Woo! A rush of adrenaline sprayed through my skulls, giving me a lightheaded euphoria. Someone's going to see us. Next to my head, Officer Wilde placed a large, flat metal hook onto the edge of the car hood just below the windshield. He attached a long, thick strap with metal loops to the hook and laid them down in front of my face. Then he unlocked one of the cuffs, picked me up like a featherweight, and set me down on my back. The cool metal of the hood chilled my skin through the dress, causing my nipples to harden. He stretched my arms up over my head and recuffed my free wrist and grabbed hold of my hips. As he pulled my body down the car hood, the cuffs pulled tight with a clanking sound and stretched my shoulders. Ow, I whined. Shut up, whore, he growled. Heat swelled in my chest and blowed up my neck. Even though we were both role-playing, being handled so roughly by such a strong man gave me a thrill. I felt just a little like a real whore. Someone this hunky cop would treat like a toy to be used, like a criminal about to be punished. I craned my neck up and saw the cuffs threaded through the loop and the strap pulled tight, holding me hostage against his hood. What are you going to do to me? I cried. Make you pay for your crimes, whore. My pussy clenched and moisture seeped out of it, dampening my tiny thong. My excitement over the situation surprised me. There I was a married woman about to fuck someone else. And of all people, a cop.
SPEAKER_03Kristen has never seen this before, and she literally read it like perfect. That was beautiful. Wow.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, that was fun. You know, because I thought it would be so I even having my notes over here, I was like, you know, it could be cold or have an erotic reading or something. And so you're kind of like just made one of my desires happen.
SPEAKER_03Thank you. Yeah, cool. That was amazing. I'm so glad we did that. I was that was just a total experiment. But that's awesome.
SPEAKER_05And so is that one still available on Amazon?
SPEAKER_03It is. It is. So those books, um, I mean, right now they're when I read them, they were like erotic shorts. But my feeling about those books is that there's a whole backstory for these women that it's like they should they should be novels, you know? And so at some point I'm gonna go back and really evolve those stories into like the bigger stories of each of the women that are that are in them.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. That'd be cool for one of them to appear in another one's story.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Well, and so they are that way. Like they they're they're already that way where they're all interconnected and the women meet each other and there's like a bigger arc of the whole thing. Oh, cool. But but um, but yeah, they're I feel like there's there's a lot of sex in them, which is great. But I feel like there's a lot of story that I should not really tell. So um so yeah, goals that's the future of those stories is to expand them into more.
SPEAKER_05Um that's uh that's awesome. I like it, it was hot.
SPEAKER_04Keep going.
SPEAKER_05Um, I love it. I just started experimenting and playing with like a TV series idea in like the sexual space. And so yeah, we're kind of toying with like, do we want it to be a different person each episode? Do we and have it be from male and female perspectives? Do we want it to, you know, have yeah, so we're still fleshing a lot of that out. It's very early stages, but it's fun and I think it's needed because we also want to like shift the narrative around sexual shame and um sex workers and all the all of this stuff. Yeah, just that small thing.
SPEAKER_03Well, you're gonna have to come back on the show.
SPEAKER_05I would love to, yeah, for sure. I'd love to read more of your of the books. That's fun.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, well, I'll send it to you.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, please do.
SPEAKER_03Um thank you so much for giving this incredible gift to share yourself and for playing with me with my writers. That was super fun.
SPEAKER_05Fun, spontaneous, flowy. I'm here for it.
SPEAKER_03I'm gonna put this in the show notes. Check Kristen out, but it's KristenBirdwell.com. Yeah. So if you would like to learn more about her, then check the show notes for links.
SPEAKER_05Cool.
Marvin aka Morgan HaleThanks for listening to Filthy Little Secrets. I hope we left you feeling light, free, and inspired to explore your filthy sexual horizons. If you want more, subscribe to get all the filthy feature funds. If you're a sex positive woman who'd like to burn another bra of shame, I want to talk to you. Want to come on the show and tell your story? Go to Morganhale Books.com slash podcast to learn more. That's M O R T A N H A L E Books.com slash podcast. Until next time, this is Morgan Hale, encouraging you to keep it real and filthy.